Revolution in the 1st World

[RNK]

Is it possible?

6 months ago I'd have said no. However, recently I have had contact with a local revolutionary organization that believes that immediate Revolution is possible, without the need to wait for "a global crisis affecting both the bourgeoisie and the proletariat".

Their message is that it is essentially possible to start a revolution immediately. Many can agree that one of the most visible obstacles of such an immediate revolution is the proletariat themselves; that it is not believed by the masses that violent uprising is yet needed. Also, the assumed disgust with which the population would view such a violent undertaking is another large obstacle; the utter command of the word "terrorism" the west now has, and the fear-mongering the word produces, is a very dangerous tool to supress such uprisings.

Obviously an uprising would be extremely difficult. It would need a central, stable support group from which to recruit and assemble a red army around; it would also need a plethora of logistics and political faces, and would be forced to fight, at first, in enemy territory, subjected to the wide range of tools the capitalist governments have at their disposal, such as massive militaries, far-reaching intelligence services and the majority (via dillusion) on their side.

Currently, in Canada, there is a crisis of sorts brewing among the Native peoples which has been in existance for years. Recently it has boiled over into open confrontations between Native militias and the Canadian Army. Ontop of that, Native culture is in absolute misery; suicide rates on Native reserves are, in some places, higher than anywhere else on earth. Protests, uprisings and clashes against the federal government occur frequently and range in severity from small gatherings of protesting youth to month-long barricades and rioting.

It is on this focus that a Revolution can grow from an embryonic movement to one of capable worth. The Natives are obviously ready to stand up, and their cries echo the cries of the oppressed workers, the oppressed minorities and the denizens and unlucky of society. They cry for equality, for a better life under a system built to support them, not the current system which has abandoned them.

This organization, the Revolutionary Communist Party of Canada is based in Montreal and it too believes that an uprising in Canada is possible. It is anti-seperatist (as it should be) and is currently in the final steps of organizing its political wing. From there it will hopefully reach out and secure itself in the Native liberation movement. In that, I believe, the movement can grow.

As for the other mentioned obstacle, the unwillingness of the populace to engage in a bloody revolutionary war, I believe that too is possible. I believe that if a violent revolution, coupled with political insurrection and education and propaganda, can survive for a period of years without being crushed, that the people of this modern, 1st world country will become "accustomed" to the violence, and although that statement may seem in itself a tragicomic way of putting it, it is my believe that if that can occur, than widespread popular support for the movement can also occur, so long as the movement unrelentlessly strives to prove that it is infact working and fighting for the masses.

And if there are any counter-revolutionary persons that wish to flame me (and I have no doubt there will be many that want to), don't bother. I won't be coming back to this thread. If there are any persons honestly interested about supporting the Marxist-Leninist Revolution in Canada, TODAY and not tomorrow, you can contact me via PM.

Ernest

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

People act on a material basis. Telling them they are oppressed and should act will not work.

It is an idealist position to think it can and while people percieve that capitalism is working for them, they will see you guys, use common sense and reject you.

suprising? Not really.

The neo-conservatives have idealist practices too. they have political power and money, yet they are largely ignored my much of america.

If their Idealism fails, so will yours.

Why not look at it from a marxist position, and try to figure out why people act how they do in certain situations?

Did people in 1917 act because the idea of communism sounded nice to them? or was it because they were living in shit and so acted in their class interest to change it?

The working class will act and change society when the right material conditions exist for them too.

I won't be coming back to this thread

I wonder why?

[Intelligitimate]

This is simply impossible. You would probably be arrested before you could even get started, no doubt because agents have already infiltrated your organization (they are in them all), and you would be moved down by professional troops quickly in any case. The only realistic thing you could would be to conduct terrorist operations against the government, but that isn't gonna cause a revolution. Only the working class can do that, not a bunch of bomb-throwing anarchists.

On a side note, it is a tactic of government agents to try to incite Leftists to violence. The purpose is to get you to do something that will get you killed or arrested. Read up on the COINTELPRO operations.

[BobKKKindle$]

My Personal Revolutionary Philosophy places great faith in the Students. As We (I being a student myself) have not yet been immersed into the Capitlaist relations of production, we are able to view the system from an external perspective and thus decided whether the Capitalist Society is the world that we want to live in.

One only needs to look at May 1968 to see that Students can take Revolution from the Class rooms to the streets. At the Beginning of the May movement you had around 30,000 students running amock in the Sorbonne, Paris. At the High Point of the movement, you had 10 million workers (1/3 of the labour force) and over 60,000 students setting up baricades in the Streets.

As to Why Revolution is less likely to happen in the First World, I highly Recommend that you take a look at 'One Dimensional Man' by herbert Marcuse (frankfurt school) He discusses the way in which Capitalist Society Prevents the Proletariat from gaining a Consciousness through the effects of Consumerism and hegemony:

"The Means of Communication and the irresistable output of the entertainement iindustry carry with them certain prescribed intelelctual and emotional reactions, that bind the consumers to the producers and to the whole social and economic system. Thus emerges a pattern of one-dimensional thought"

So, as always, it appears that a revolution relies upon making workers conscious of their position as a class. But i think this may be less hard than it seems. If Students and Radicals organised a serious Revolutionary Seizure of Power (say in a Uuniversity, or Small town) it could establish a precedent...

[OkaCrisis]

Originally posted by bobkindles@Jun 6 2006, 12:17 AM
... Capitalist Society Prevents the Proletariat from gaining a Consciousness through the effects of Consumerism and hegemony:

"The Means of Communication and the irresistable output of the entertainement iindustry carry with them certain prescribed intelelctual and emotional reactions, that bind the consumers to the producers and to the whole social and economic system. Thus emerges a pattern of one-dimensional thought"

So, as always, it appears that a revolution relies upon making workers conscious of their position as a class. But i think this may be less hard than it seems. If Students and Radicals organised a serious Revolutionary Seizure of Power (say in a Uuniversity, or Small town) it could establish a precedent...

The Native population in Canada is under 4%. They may have support from a variety of non-native people and groups, but unfortunately the majority of the Canadian population believe that the conditions of Aboriginals are their 'own fault', and 'could be overcome, if only the individual was 'strong enough''. Equally unfortunate is the fact that the same majority believe the same things about immigrants, women, and other people subjeted to living in poverty and other kinds of desperate conditions.

They believe in the American Dream, that anyone can 'make it happen' if only they work hard enough. They fail to recognize the relationship between oppression and privilege, that for one to exist, so must the other.

I believe that revolution can only happen once conditions deteriorate for the population as a whole, of course, with the exception of the ruling elite. Only then will people be made painfully aware of their class condition, and then they can join together in thier own class interests, and overthrow thier oppressors.

I also tend to believe that the first First-World nation that this will happen in (is happening in) is France, where the nation is and has been fully industrialized for a long enough period of time that the working class is growing more aware of their powerlessness and exploitation. Canada is simply too young, and 'full of potential for growth', for the middle class to polarize, and to create an aware proletarian population large enough to do any real damage to the system.

But I love all of these Native occupations and uprisings, it's about time they took back what is rightfully theirs, and kicked up a little shit, drawing attention to their cause

[bayano]

largely in agreement with some of the main responders: an idealist approach will not work. it is about organizations working within (and led by) the oppressed or exlpoited that will bring any revolution, not simple propogating, tho that isnt necessarily the worst thing in the world if done right. on the other hand, a little propoganda by deed doesnt hurt if the sentiment is already there, for instance during an already militant strike (which i know you guys sometimes have in canada) or when popular feelings are of class or other resentment towards the establishment. but in the end, it is still real struggle that will carry the day. its probably the biggest reason we are doing so poorly here.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Ernest,

You have not outlined any organization. All you have said is that there are many obsticles and that you are looking to reach out to the natives.

How do you plan to aquire weapons? Ammo? Food? supplies? recruits? How will you organize your guerilla? Will they run around doing as they please? Or will they fight as a unit and attack key points? How do you expect to have them attack these key points with no organization>? What will your guerrilla do in the face of enemy jets and tanks?

I know that you will not come back to this thread, but this is directed at anyone who wishes to answer because I'm not quite sure how it would work.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I've had some direct contact with the CPR(OC), having lived in Montreal - as far as I can tell, they're something of an ineffectual fringe group. I can only imagine being anti-seperatist probably just makes this worse . . . though I'd be curious to hear this comrade's explanation for that utterly stupid* position.


*By which I mean counter-productive in that the vast majority of conscious workers in Quebec are seperatists, and that a free socialist Quebec could be the biggest boon to the Canadian left since . . . ever.