Thread: Racism at the World Cup?

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    So it's pretty late at night, and I'm channel surfing. I'm on ESPN and there's this report about racism at World Cup football matches. The chants include shouting "monkey" at African players, the fans throw bananas at them, and there's even this one Italian football player dick who gives a fascist salute to fascist fans.

    So is there anything European comrades can do about this disgusting racism, if anyone is going to the games? I think this type of racist shit at football matches should be fought, with force if neccesary.

    (note that I attempted to speak British english...'football' instead of 'soccer'...so three cheers for me)
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    speaking of that, the world cup is something that racist germans are apparently attempting to organize around:

    'No place for Nazis'

    How Leipzig is perceived after the tournament may depend on whether the far-right NPD party is allowed to hold a rally planned for the Iran-Angola match on 21 June.


    Far-right groups have made Leipzig a centre for May Day rallies

    In recent years the city has been the scene of sometimes violent clashes between far-right demonstrators, left-wing counter-protesters and police on May Day and 3 October, the anniversary of reunification.

    Mr Jung said some extremists appeared to want to turn the city into a nationalist symbol.

    "But so far, the people of Leipzig have thwarted their attempts. Each time neo-Nazis schedule a demonstration in Leipzig, the Leipzigers take to the street by the tens of thousands," he said.

    "They show very peacefully but effectively that Leipzig is no place for Nazis."

    The mayor hopes the tournament will be a chance to banish once and for all the idea that the former East Germany is a dour and gloomy place.

    "This city is vibrant with life... And the Leipzigers are a hard-working, bright and optimistic kind of people.

    "We hope that as many visitors as possible will come here and share this experience."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5013728.stm

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    Originally posted by anomaly+--> (anomaly)The chants include shouting "monkey" at African players, the fans throw bananas at them....[/b]


    Apparently, this is pretty common in both the Italian and Spanish leagues; Ashley Cole certainly had a pretty torrid night in Madrid (?) a few years back. But, in the Premier League at least, racist chants from the terraces all but ended in around the late eighties early ninties....there was, at this time, a pretty big crackdown on English football hooligans; which, possibly, served as cover for the Government to cease funding C18. Though I have read reports that racist behaviour is still present in the lower leagues....a League 2 (?) Goalkeeper was abused throughout a game a few months back, but that it appeared in the News is probably a "good" sign.

    I dunno if this will be a prominent feature of the World Cup, I doubt it myself....the German State, from what I've read, has been actively vetting ticket buyers and I think the liberal bourgeois would probably be pretty embarrassed if there was open racism at the games. You know, in their eyes, economic racism is "a-ok" but "monkey chants" are a problem. From what I've read, the only way you'd probably see a significant racist presence inside the Stadiums, is if they get the tickets from the tickets that have been allocated to "Corporate Sponsors"....those folks have been selling them on the internet.

    anomaly
    ....and there's even this one Italian football player dick who gives a fascist salute to fascist fans.


    Paolo Di Canio???
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    Originally posted by AS
    Paolo Di Canio???
    Yep.
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    This has been going on for quite some time.....black players being treated like animals by racist, fascist leaning, soccer fans.

    A quick search will bring up a ton of info on it, but what I was interested in is the fact that in Germany, a high concentration of neo-nazism is located in East Germany.....this trend of former Soviet bloc countries and fascism seems to even show face in Germany.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/...rts/racism.php

    World Cup plans anti-racism defense
    By Jere Longman The New York Times

    SUNDAY, JUNE 4, 2006

    HAMBURG As he left the soccer field after a club match in the eastern German city of Halle on March 25, the Nigerian forward Adebowale Ogungbure was spat upon, jeered with racial remarks and mocked with monkey noises. In rebuke, he placed two fingers under his nose to simulate a Hitler mustache and gave a Nazi salute.

    In April, the American defender Oguchi Onyewu, playing for his professional club team in Belgium, dismissively gestured toward fans who were making simian chants at him. Then, as he went to throw the ball inbounds, Onyewu said a fan of the opposing team reached over a barrier and punched him in the face.

    International soccer has been plagued for years by violence among fans, including racial incidents. But FIFA, soccer's world governing body, which is based in Zurich, said there had been a recent surge in discriminatory behavior toward blacks by fans and other players, an escalation that has dovetailed with the signing of more players from Africa and Latin America by elite European clubs.

    This "deplorable trend," as FIFA has called it, now threatens to embarrass the sport on its grandest stage, the World Cup, which opens June 9 for a monthlong run in 12 cities around Germany. More than 30 billion cumulative television viewers are expected to watch part of the competition, and Sepp Blatter, FIFA's president, has vowed to crack down on racist behavior during the tournament.

    The issue has been included on the agenda at FIFA's biannual congress, scheduled to be held this week in Munich. A campaign against bigotry includes "Say No to Racism" stadium banners and television commercials, and team captains will make pregame speeches during the quarterfinals of the 32-team tournament.

    Players, coaches and officials have been threatened with sanctions. But FIFA has said it would not be practical to use the harshest penalties available to punish misbehaving fans - halting matches, holding games in empty stadiums and deducting points that teams receive for victories and ties.

    Players and anti-racism experts said they expected offensive behavior during the tournament, including monkey- like chanting; derisive singing; the hanging of banners that reflect racist beliefs; and perhaps the tossing of bananas or banana peels, all familiar occurrences during matches in Spain, Italy, Eastern Germany and Eastern Europe.

    "For us it's quite clear this is a reflection of underlying tensions that exist in European societies," said Piara Powar, director of Kick It Out, an organization against racism in soccer based in London. He said of Eastern Europe: "Poverty, unemployment, is a problem. Indigenous people are looking for easy answers to blame. Often newcomers bear the brunt of the blame."

    Yet experts and players also said they believed the racist behavior would be constrained at the World Cup because of increased security, the international makeup of the crowds, higher ticket prices and the prestige of the event.

    "Racism is a feature of many football leagues inside and outside Europe," said Kurt Wachter, project coordinator for the Football Against Racism in Europe, an international network of organizations. He said he expected most problems to occur outside stadiums, where crowds are less controlled. "We're sure we will see some things we're used to seeing. It won't stop because of the World Cup."

    Germany has one of the world's lowest rates of violent crime. Still, an immigrant group called the Africa Council said it would publish a "No Go" guide for nonwhites during the World Cup, particularly for some areas of eastern Berlin and for surrounding towns in the state of Brandenburg.

    Chancellor Angela Merkel has warned that "anybody who threatens, attacks or, worse, kills anybody because of the color of his skin or because he comes from another country will face the full force of the law."

    The Bundesliga in Germany is one of the world's top professional soccer leagues and has not experienced widespread racism. Incidents involving racial abuse of black players are more prevalent in semiprofessional and amateur leagues in Eastern Germany.

    After making a Nazi salute, which is illegal in Germany, Ogungbure of Nigeria was investigated by the authorities. But a charge of unconstitutional behavior against him was soon dropped because his gesture had been meant to renounce extremist activity.

    "I regret what I did," Ogungbure said in an interview by telephone from Leipzig. "I should have walked away. I'm a professional, but I'm a human, too. They don't spit on dogs. Why should they spit on me? I felt like a nobody."

    Gerald Asamoah, a forward on Germany's World Cup team and a native of Ghana, has been recounting an incident in the late 1990s when he was pelted with bananas before a club match in Cottbus. "I'll never forget that," Asamoah said during a television interview. "It's like we're not people." He has expressed anger and sadness over a banner distributed by a rightist group that admonished, "No Gerald, You Are Not Germany."

    Racist behavior at soccer matches is primarily displayed by men and is fueled by several factors, according to experts: alcohol; the perceived "us versus them" threat of multiculturalism in societies that were once more ethnically homogeneous; the difficult economic transition of East European countries since the fall of the Berlin Wall; and crude attempts to unnerve opposing players during bitter, consuming rivalries.

    Other observers say the soccer stadium in Europe has become a communal soapbox, one of the few remaining public spaces where spectators can be outrageous and where political correctness does not exist and is even discouraged.

    "Nowhere else other than football do people meet someplace and have a stage for shouting things as an anonymous mass," said Gerd Dembowski, director of an anti-racist organization called Floodlight, based in Berlin. "You can shout things you would never say in your normal life, let out your frustrations."

    Not all the misbehavior can be traced to fans or to Europe. Players and coaches have also been transgressors.

    Luis Aragonés, Spain's World Cup coach, was fined in 2004 after making racial remarks about the French star Thierry Henry. In March, in the Brazilian league, the defender Antonio Carlos was suspended for 120 days, and four additional matches, after an incident in which he shouted "monkey" at an opposing player who is black.

    But it was an incident in Spain on Feb. 25 that galvanized anti-racist sentiment and prodded FIFA into taking a tougher stand against bigoted behavior. That match, in Zaragoza, was temporarily halted in the 77th minute by the referee, who threatened to cancel the remaining 13 minutes after Samuel Eto'o, the star forward for Barcelona, was subjected to a chorus of racial taunts. Eto'o threatened to leave the field, but his coach and teammates persuaded him to continue, and last month Barcelona won the European Champions Cup.

    Eto'o, who was voted European player of the year this spring, has become one of the sport's most outspoken players on the subject of racism.

    "I'll continue to play," Eto'o, whose national team, Cameroon, did not qualify for the World Cup, said last week through his agent. "I'm not going to give up and hide and put my head down. I'll score goals against the teams whose fans are making rude noises."

    Under pressure to curb what it acknowledged was an increase in racist incidents, FIFA announced in late March a stricter set of penalties that would apply for club and national team matches. The sanctions would include suspensions of five matches for players and officials who make discriminatory gestures, fines of $16,600 to $25,000 for each offense and two-year stadium bans for offending spectators. It also said teams, which receive three points in the standings for a victory, would have three points deducted on a first offense by misbehaving players, officials or fans.

    Blatter, the FIFA president, told reporters that the three-point deduction for abhorrent fan behavior would apply during the World Cup, then backed away from his comments in April. Blatter declined to comment for this article. And it remains unclear exactly what penalties will be levied against World Cup teams for offensive behavior by fans, coaches and players.

    Nicolas Maingot, a FIFA spokesman, said World Cup sanctions would be made public later. But in an e-mail response to questions, he said: "Only racist abuses in the field of play will be punished. For fans, it will be impossible, due to the multinationality of the audience.

    "In other words, it would be impossible to identify from which side would potential racist abusers come."

    Critics counter that spectators are supposed to have their names on their tickets, so identifying offending fans should be relatively easy.

    Onyewu, the American defender who was punched by an opposing fan in Belgium, said the man was identified through an anonymous tip and was barred from attending matches for two years. Onyewu said he did not retaliate, because he believed that racist behavior reflected acts of a minority of fans.

    "I'm anticipating a more professional environment in Germany because it's the World Cup," Onyewu said. Even so, he said, although anti-racist efforts could restrict public behavior, "that's only helping the exterior."

    He added, "The interior mind thinking, you can't really change that."

    HAMBURG As he left the soccer field after a club match in the eastern German city of Halle on March 25, the Nigerian forward Adebowale Ogungbure was spat upon, jeered with racial remarks and mocked with monkey noises. In rebuke, he placed two fingers under his nose to simulate a Hitler mustache and gave a Nazi salute.

    In April, the American defender Oguchi Onyewu, playing for his professional club team in Belgium, dismissively gestured toward fans who were making simian chants at him. Then, as he went to throw the ball inbounds, Onyewu said a fan of the opposing team reached over a barrier and punched him in the face.

    International soccer has been plagued for years by violence among fans, including racial incidents. But FIFA, soccer's world governing body, which is based in Zurich, said there had been a recent surge in discriminatory behavior toward blacks by fans and other players, an escalation that has dovetailed with the signing of more players from Africa and Latin America by elite European clubs.

    This "deplorable trend," as FIFA has called it, now threatens to embarrass the sport on its grandest stage, the World Cup, which opens June 9 for a monthlong run in 12 cities around Germany. More than 30 billion cumulative television viewers are expected to watch part of the competition, and Sepp Blatter, FIFA's president, has vowed to crack down on racist behavior during the tournament.

    The issue has been included on the agenda at FIFA's biannual congress, scheduled to be held this week in Munich. A campaign against bigotry includes "Say No to Racism" stadium banners and television commercials, and team captains will make pregame speeches during the quarterfinals of the 32-team tournament.

    Players, coaches and officials have been threatened with sanctions. But FIFA has said it would not be practical to use the harshest penalties available to punish misbehaving fans - halting matches, holding games in empty stadiums and deducting points that teams receive for victories and ties.

    Players and anti-racism experts said they expected offensive behavior during the tournament, including monkey- like chanting; derisive singing; the hanging of banners that reflect racist beliefs; and perhaps the tossing of bananas or banana peels, all familiar occurrences during matches in Spain, Italy, Eastern Germany and Eastern Europe.

    "For us it's quite clear this is a reflection of underlying tensions that exist in European societies," said Piara Powar, director of Kick It Out, an organization against racism in soccer based in London. He said of Eastern Europe: "Poverty, unemployment, is a problem. Indigenous people are looking for easy answers to blame. Often newcomers bear the brunt of the blame."

    Yet experts and players also said they believed the racist behavior would be constrained at the World Cup because of increased security, the international makeup of the crowds, higher ticket prices and the prestige of the event.

    "Racism is a feature of many football leagues inside and outside Europe," said Kurt Wachter, project coordinator for the Football Against Racism in Europe, an international network of organizations. He said he expected most problems to occur outside stadiums, where crowds are less controlled. "We're sure we will see some things we're used to seeing. It won't stop because of the World Cup."

    Germany has one of the world's lowest rates of violent crime. Still, an immigrant group called the Africa Council said it would publish a "No Go" guide for nonwhites during the World Cup, particularly for some areas of eastern Berlin and for surrounding towns in the state of Brandenburg.

    Chancellor Angela Merkel has warned that "anybody who threatens, attacks or, worse, kills anybody because of the color of his skin or because he comes from another country will face the full force of the law."

    The Bundesliga in Germany is one of the world's top professional soccer leagues and has not experienced widespread racism. Incidents involving racial abuse of black players are more prevalent in semiprofessional and amateur leagues in Eastern Germany.

    After making a Nazi salute, which is illegal in Germany, Ogungbure of Nigeria was investigated by the authorities. But a charge of unconstitutional behavior against him was soon dropped because his gesture had been meant to renounce extremist activity.

    "I regret what I did," Ogungbure said in an interview by telephone from Leipzig. "I should have walked away. I'm a professional, but I'm a human, too. They don't spit on dogs. Why should they spit on me? I felt like a nobody."

    Gerald Asamoah, a forward on Germany's World Cup team and a native of Ghana, has been recounting an incident in the late 1990s when he was pelted with bananas before a club match in Cottbus. "I'll never forget that," Asamoah said during a television interview. "It's like we're not people." He has expressed anger and sadness over a banner distributed by a rightist group that admonished, "No Gerald, You Are Not Germany."

    Racist behavior at soccer matches is primarily displayed by men and is fueled by several factors, according to experts: alcohol; the perceived "us versus them" threat of multiculturalism in societies that were once more ethnically homogeneous; the difficult economic transition of East European countries since the fall of the Berlin Wall; and crude attempts to unnerve opposing players during bitter, consuming rivalries.

    Other observers say the soccer stadium in Europe has become a communal soapbox, one of the few remaining public spaces where spectators can be outrageous and where political correctness does not exist and is even discouraged.

    "Nowhere else other than football do people meet someplace and have a stage for shouting things as an anonymous mass," said Gerd Dembowski, director of an anti-racist organization called Floodlight, based in Berlin. "You can shout things you would never say in your normal life, let out your frustrations."

    Not all the misbehavior can be traced to fans or to Europe. Players and coaches have also been transgressors.

    Luis Aragonés, Spain's World Cup coach, was fined in 2004 after making racial remarks about the French star Thierry Henry. In March, in the Brazilian league, the defender Antonio Carlos was suspended for 120 days, and four additional matches, after an incident in which he shouted "monkey" at an opposing player who is black.

    But it was an incident in Spain on Feb. 25 that galvanized anti-racist sentiment and prodded FIFA into taking a tougher stand against bigoted behavior. That match, in Zaragoza, was temporarily halted in the 77th minute by the referee, who threatened to cancel the remaining 13 minutes after Samuel Eto'o, the star forward for Barcelona, was subjected to a chorus of racial taunts. Eto'o threatened to leave the field, but his coach and teammates persuaded him to continue, and last month Barcelona won the European Champions Cup.

    Eto'o, who was voted European player of the year this spring, has become one of the sport's most outspoken players on the subject of racism.

    "I'll continue to play," Eto'o, whose national team, Cameroon, did not qualify for the World Cup, said last week through his agent. "I'm not going to give up and hide and put my head down. I'll score goals against the teams whose fans are making rude noises."

    Under pressure to curb what it acknowledged was an increase in racist incidents, FIFA announced in late March a stricter set of penalties that would apply for club and national team matches. The sanctions would include suspensions of five matches for players and officials who make discriminatory gestures, fines of $16,600 to $25,000 for each offense and two-year stadium bans for offending spectators. It also said teams, which receive three points in the standings for a victory, would have three points deducted on a first offense by misbehaving players, officials or fans.

    Blatter, the FIFA president, told reporters that the three-point deduction for abhorrent fan behavior would apply during the World Cup, then backed away from his comments in April. Blatter declined to comment for this article. And it remains unclear exactly what penalties will be levied against World Cup teams for offensive behavior by fans, coaches and players.

    Nicolas Maingot, a FIFA spokesman, said World Cup sanctions would be made public later. But in an e-mail response to questions, he said: "Only racist abuses in the field of play will be punished. For fans, it will be impossible, due to the multinationality of the audience.

    "In other words, it would be impossible to identify from which side would potential racist abusers come."

    Critics counter that spectators are supposed to have their names on their tickets, so identifying offending fans should be relatively easy.

    Onyewu, the American defender who was punched by an opposing fan in Belgium, said the man was identified through an anonymous tip and was barred from attending matches for two years. Onyewu said he did not retaliate, because he believed that racist behavior reflected acts of a minority of fans.

    "I'm anticipating a more professional environment in Germany because it's the World Cup," Onyewu said. Even so, he said, although anti-racist efforts could restrict public behavior, "that's only helping the exterior."

    He added, "The interior mind thinking, you can't really change that."
    "Criticism must be sharp… If you do not do things well, I won't be satisfied with it, and if I offend you, I offend you, and that's that. To be afraid of offending people is nothing more than being afraid of losing votes and being afraid of having difficult relations in one's work with one's co-workers. Will I starve if you don't vote for me? Nothing of the sort. Actually, relations will be smoother if you speak out and put the problem clearly on the table… A bull has two horns because it has to fight. One purpose is for defense and another purpose is for offence. I have often asked comrades, Have you grown any horns on your head?' You comrades can feel your heads and see… I think that it's better to grow two horns,' because that conforms to Marxism" - Mao
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    I hope I see on the news something about a bunch of mutiracial and multi-national fans giving some neo-nazis the severe kicking they deserve.


    Whilst I don't support jails, maybe the German government should dispose of their neo-nazi trash in prisons until the end of the world cup, so that normal people can enjoy the football?
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    Originally posted by ThisAnarchistKillsNazis@Jun 5 2006, 08:55 AM
    I hope I see on the news something about a bunch of mutiracial and multi-national fans giving some neo-nazis the severe kicking they deserve.


    Whilst I don't support jails, maybe the German government should dispose of their neo-nazi trash in prisons until the end of the world cup, so that normal people can enjoy the football?
    If left up to me, they would be rounded up and shot.....
    "Criticism must be sharp… If you do not do things well, I won't be satisfied with it, and if I offend you, I offend you, and that's that. To be afraid of offending people is nothing more than being afraid of losing votes and being afraid of having difficult relations in one's work with one's co-workers. Will I starve if you don't vote for me? Nothing of the sort. Actually, relations will be smoother if you speak out and put the problem clearly on the table… A bull has two horns because it has to fight. One purpose is for defense and another purpose is for offence. I have often asked comrades, Have you grown any horns on your head?' You comrades can feel your heads and see… I think that it's better to grow two horns,' because that conforms to Marxism" - Mao
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    Paolo Di Canio!!!

    That s.o.b used to play for Celtic! wtf is he up to?!
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    Oh i'm thinking ther will be much much violence in the days to come in the world Cup. It'll be very interesting indeed. And the rumours about Neo Nazi uprisings and stuff. I've got afeeling there's gonna be some bad shit going down over there.
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    These people make me sick...they deserve a good beating. It&#39;s good to hear about the anti-Nazi demos in Leipzig though.
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    The chants include shouting "monkey" at African players, the fans throw bananas at them, and there&#39;s even this one Italian football player dick who gives a fascist salute to fascist fans.
    I don&#39;t think any of that happened at this world cup yet. There are alot of racist hooligins in England and alot of fascists in Italy. I read once that one time during an Italin football match one group of fans started doing fascist chants but then the opposing fans started doing anit-fascist chants. It turned out to be a real shouting match.
    There is still much racism in football but there is also alot of anti-fascist fans as well.
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    Originally posted by Iroquois Xavier@Jun 5 2006, 12:48 PM
    Paolo Di Canio&#33;&#33;&#33;

    That s.o.b used to play for Celtic&#33; wtf is he up to?&#33;
    He&#39;s a fascist wanker. He has a tattoo which says "Dux", which is Latin for "Duce", aka Mussolini.
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    &#39;Kick Racism Out Of Football&#39;?

    The problem is: who is supposed to be &#39;kicking racism out of football&#39;?

    The &#39;Kick Racism Out Of Football&#39; campaign is a top-down initiative. It involves the FA and FIFA sending/inviting the authorities to the stadium terraces. These authorities are instructed to spy on football fans and report any behaviour that they deem &#39;racist&#39;.

    I am 100% against this.

    Racist chants at football matches in England are made by a tiny minority of fans. I would rather put up with a few racist scum than have FA and FIFA authorities breathing down my neck while i&#39;m trying to munch on my pie and watch a game of footie.

    And i&#39;m fully against institutionalised &#39;anti-racism&#39;.
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    And i&#39;m fully against institutionalised &#39;anti-racism&#39;.
    *raises eyebrow*
    Does that include laws that state racism is wrong or just ways that government physically try to tackle racism?
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    Does that include laws that state racism is wrong or just ways that government physically try to tackle racism?
    I&#39;m against the superficial &#39;anti-racism&#39; laws of the state. I oppose state bans on &#39;racism&#39;, precisely because they&#39;re always based on superficial definitions of racism. For example, a few football fans making monkey noises at a black footballer is &#39;racism&#39; only to those with an extremely superficial definition of the word. For that reason, it is unlikely to affect the black population. Re-defining racism in such a way does injustice to and degrades the severity of real racism. And, as importanly, it allows the bourgeois state to pose itself as a defender of anti-racism. Meanwhile the root of actual racism - i.e. bourgeois society, led by the bourgeois state - is allowed to go unchallenged.

    It is very easy for the state to ban &#39;racist&#39; words and sounds, if we are so superficial and simple-minded as to define racism by those words and sounds.

    An example of a truly anti-racist policy that we ought to be fighting for: an open-door policy on immigration. Such a policy would help foster greater solidarity between the working people of the world, and thereby give way to a fight against racism by those who are the only ones capable of putting up such a fight: i.e. working class people&#33;
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    Plus, would you rather some FIFA official say "Please sir, we&#39;re going to have to ask you to leave" or would you prefer a group of anti-fascists not say anything and just beat the offender to the ground?

    I pick the latter
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    i read some article about a crackdown a couple of weeks ago by the German state against two neo-nazi groups. in one, they raided the group&#39;s hq and found thousands of neo-nazi guides to the world cup in germany, printed for their brethren visiting from outside.

    as for why nazis are so prevalent in eastern europe- that requires a whole different thread
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    If you look at the banner, you&#39;ll see a fascist symbol (the celtic cross). Apparently, it was put there by the Italian goalkeeper, Buffon, who is a fascist supporter.

    Arseholes.
    Anarchia: An excess of the passion for liberty.

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    Originally posted by Anarchia@Jul 15 2006, 01:08 PM

    If you look at the banner, you&#39;ll see a fascist symbol (the celtic cross). Apparently, it was put there by the Italian goalkeeper, Buffon, who is a fascist supporter.

    Arseholes.
    A celtic cross is not a fucking fascist symbol. It&#39;s a symbol of the Celtic culture which has nothing to do with fascism. That&#39;s not even a celtic cross, that&#39;s odin&#39;s cross.
    &quot;And behold, a pale horse, and the name that sat on him was death and Hell followed with him.&quot; - Revelations 6:8


    &quot;Condem me, it does not matter: History will absolve me.&quot; - Fidel Castro

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