White kids pretending to be black

[Entrails Konfetti]

I don't know if you could consider it discrimination, and yes it's pretty much a phase that some white teenage suburbanites go through. I know that I'm white, and I can't speak for black people, but immitating shit that goes on in the ghetto or in rap videos because the media considers it cool is just so lame to me because I don't know what it's actually like. Though I know it's not exactly glamorous living through those hardships, and I don't understand how theres novelty in it.

I like rap, and reggea, but to go around talking in ebonics or wearing a rasta tam because I find it cool for shallow reasons is patronizing.

[R_P_A_S]

I feel sorry for those white kids.

[Little brother]

I've got a mate who is sorta like this. A kid from the ghetto stuck in a Australian middle class white kids body. Outta respect for my mate i won't say anything. It shits me. But hey nothing pisses me off more than others having a go at me for what i wear. Snigger to yourself. But really it's abit of a joke and like all fazes it'll end in time

[bezdomni]

I find it ironic that a lot of these middle class "gangstas" from the "ghetto" spend more on one shirt or one pair of shoes than I've spent on my entire wardrobe.

Plus, I think the rap video style is incredibly lame. I hate the way it looks. NOBODY needs to wear an XXXXXXL...period!

[C_Rasmussen]

It only gets me when whites start speaking ebonics. Why can't they keep some things from the black culture with the black culture. Its just uneasing hearing a white kid saying things like........"Wutz crackalackin homedawg?" or something along those lines.

[midnight marauder]

There's no such thing as a "white acting black." Such an idea is a prime example of bourgeois values trickling down into society.

Before one says that a white person is acting black, or a black person is acting white, or in general, x race is acting like y race, is to assume several things. First, and most oppresive, is the assumption that races have set, defined roles in society. That each race has a specific place in society, has specific mannerisms and interests, etc. Second, that "switching races" is a "bad thing," and third, that races actually exist (which is a whole different topic all together; I'm sure you won't have a hard time finding one).

These assumptions are the fences between unity, respect, and mutual aide. And they're total bullshit. I cringe every time I hear a classmate or a comrade utter the word "wigger" or a similar phrase. It's bullshit. It's racist. It's an idea that we desparatley need to distance ourselves from.

On a different note, I hope I don't have to explain the ridiculousless of patronizing or discriminating against someone based on how they prefer to look, dress, talk, or what they listen to, etc. Isn't communism/anarchism about freedom in that regard?




Hope I explained my views on this subject well. Any thoughts or debate would be welcomed

[Nicky Scarfo]

How I view it depends on the context. In my city, it's not uncommon for white and black kids to grow up in the same poor neighborhoods. In most such cases the whites are the minorities, so it shouldn't be considered especially strange that they would pick up the mannerisms and culture of the dominant group in their community. A couple of my watering holes are located within four blocks of poor Irish-Americans surrounded by twenty blocks of poor African-Americans.

Even white suburban kids it doesn't annoy me too terribly if they dress and talk a little hip-hop. Shit, it's a popular youth subculture, you gotta expect white kids will pick up on it. Now, there's taking it to extremes of course, when white kids from Wonder Bread suburbs not only dress hip-hop and use the slang but try to imitate a Black voice. That's stupid in my opinion. Of course, I just generally find suburban teens trying to act trendy annoying and stupid-- it's not limited to the so-called "wiggers".

But my experience growing up was one of working-class Black kids and White kids living in the same community, going to the same school, so generally I don't view it as such a big deal. What I found ironic was the same White kids who were into hip-hop culture the most were also the biggest racists. They mostly came from working-class households where their parents were racist as were most of their White neighbors, so although they embraced Black culture they still held White supremacist attitudes. Then of course, the non-hip-hop White kids in those neighborhoods were also racists who called the other kids "nigger lovers". But hey, everyone has the same shitty prospects and the same chances of ending up dead in a gunfight, so I suppose there's some brotherhood there, right?

The neighborhood in Philly I've described above (where I often do my drinking)has also been the scene of some of the city's worst racial violence, along with Kensington (another mixed working-class community), which just goes to show that physical integration is not enough to overcome racism.

ON EDIT: By the way, this sort of Black "cultural appropriation" is not in any way limited to White people-- you can also find it among Latinos, Arabs and Asians. It also seems to cut across class lines. Hip-hop has simply become that powerful of a subculture. It's become so mainstream in our society, in fact, that "subculture" may not be an appropriate term.

[Comrada J]

In my area, I often hear teens address each other as "dwag", not that I'm against cultural sharing or anything, it's just these people look so ridiculous and I'm sure an the actual black communities would be insulted by this.

[Forward Union]

What pisses me off is that there is even a way to "act black" people should all be individuals and not have their actions characterised by their race.

Unfortunately the capitalist system has pushed people into following certain trends, and there is a way of "acting black" although it's not a scientifically accurate way of explaining it.

It's always annoying to see people trying to enhance themselves by being someone else.

[Hiero]

What pisses me off is that there is even a way to "act black" people should all be individuals and not have their actions characterised by their race.

The term Black most of the time refers to the African-Americans. They are nation, as well as a ethnicity. So you can act Black, though probally not succesfully. The image on tv, that certian white people try to intimate is probally not a perfect image, rather something controlled for sale.

People are not pefect individuals, their actions are determined by their culture/ethnicity, not their race. So that means there is a dominate Black culture, dominate White culture and it continues on. White people "acting black" is really apart of the commercialised culture that is aprt of the western world. It is a bit similar to when non Chinese people began eating Chinese food, though i don't see the former lasting as long.

[drain.you]

Hmm...what?

Are people here actually saying that races should act certain ways and aren't allowed to cross capitalist 'cultural barriers'?

Of course I condemn people mocking other cultures and imitating other cultures in order to laugh at them and such but people should be able to act how they want.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by JUICE+Jun 4 2006, 04:25 AM--> (JUICE @ Jun 4 2006, 04:25 AM) There's no such thing as a "white acting black." Such an idea is a prime example of bourgeois values trickling down into society. [/b]

As in ethnicity, and yes it is possible for a white middle-class kid to act black in this society-- they don't do it because it was part of their environment when growing-up, they do it because they think its glamourous. Most of these kids think black people act like the actors in gangster movie or in hip-hop videos. They act like charactures of black people.

Only when classes are abolished there won't be such a distinction in ethnicities.

Before one says that a white person is acting black, or a black person is acting white, or in general, x race is acting like y race, is to assume several things. First, and most oppresive, is the assumption that races have set, defined roles in society.

I never said such a thing. You're putting words into my mouth. They aren't set roles, but they are characteristics, and the characteristics developed they way they did due to the social-environment--again I'm talking about ethnicities. For example Australians have a strange accent because it (Austrialia) was originally a prision colony, in the ghettos in the USA Africans speak in ebonics because of the education they were denied, same with cockney speech in the East-End of London, Jamacia--same story. Characteristics aren't always set either.

Second, that "switching races" is a "bad thing,"

I'm talking about characteristics of an ethnicity.

To take up a whole set of characteristics that are charactures for shallow reason is a bad thing, because it's patronizing. All such a characteristic would mean is that it's "cool" for me to do, and doesn't take into account of how they came about, and ofcourse when the media hijacks a culture they always turn it into a characture without considering how people of an ethnic background really act.

and third, that races actually exist (which is a whole different topic all together; I'm sure you won't have a hard time finding one).

Sadly races do exist because of class society, when class society is abolished a colour a persons skin won't matter anymore. But to deny the existence of races now ignores our struggle about breaking barriers. Ethnicities are characteristics of races, and to immitate an ethnicity for superficial reasons only perpetuates racial stereotypes.

On a different note, I hope I don't have to explain the ridiculousless of patronizing or discriminating against someone based on how they prefer to look, dress, talk, or what they listen to, etc.

It's not about what someone listens to, it's about acting and looking like you know all about an environment in a stereotypical manner just to impress people.

Additives Free: Right-on!

Hiero

It is a bit similar to when non Chinese people began eating Chinese food, though i don't see the former lasting as long.

There are different methods of cooking everywhere due to environment, and when different cultures met traditional dishes became different dishes. I don't really see how eating wonton soup is the same as me talking about martial arts all the time, mimicking a Mandarin accent, and studying for 18 hours a day.

[EwokUtopia]

the strange thing is a tonne of them are racist whites who wish they were black, and yet dont really like black people themselves. They dont imitate African-American culture, they just imitate a form of corporate culture wearing blackface.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by drain.you@Jun 5 2006, 12:28 AM
Are people here actually saying that races should act certain ways and aren't allowed to cross capitalist 'cultural barriers'?

I'm not saying people of certains races should act a certain way, the characteristics aren't universal. But characteristics do come about due to environment. It doesn't make sense to take up characteristics that aren't a part of your environment. Again it's patronizing to take it up because you think such a characture is glamourous, not because it's a part of your environment, but glamourous.

Of course I condemn people mocking other cultures and imitating other cultures in order to laugh at them and such but people should be able to act how they want.

I think its wrong to act a certain way, without knowing what it all about-- it's called arrogance.

[Nicky Scarfo]

As in ethnicity, and yes it is possible for a white middle-class kid to act black in this society-- they don't do it because it was part of their environment when growing-up, they do it because they think its glamourous. Most of these kids think black people act like the actors in gangster movie or in hip-hop videos. They act like charactures of black people.

First off, as I stated above sometimes white kids "act black" because they DO grow up in mixed racial environments where black hip-hop culture is powerful. I grew up in such an environment. So did many people. Take Mick Jones from the Clash-- how did he get influenced by Reggae? He grew up in Brixton, that's how. Just because YOU may come from a lily-white environment, don't make generalizations about everyone else.

Second, although I will grant you there are teens from Wonder Bread suburbs who dress and speak within the hip-hop cultural paradigm, white people have been imitating black culture for a looong time. It goes before Elvis, way back to jazz.

Both well-to-do and working-class white people back then were accused of trying to "act black" when they went to jazz clubs, adopted black slang and styles of dress. This is nothing new and although, as I stated before, people can (like with any trend) take it to extremes and become terribly annoying in the process, I really don't think it's such a big deal and I don't understand why you're going on about it.

in the ghettos in the USA Africans speak in ebonics because of the education they were denied

This is a horribly ignorant explanation of the development of ebonics. Ebonics is based on West African...never mind, here, do yourself a favor and start to educate yourself on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Nicky Scarfo@Jun 5 2006, 03:24 AM
First off, as I stated above sometimes white kids "act black" because they DO grow up in mixed racial environments where black hip-hop culture is powerful.

I know you stated that, and I didn't mean to generalize that all white kids come from don't come from a mixed environment, but I don't think I generalized I also stated that " not all characteristics of an ethnicity are universal among people of such races". The white kids in predominatly African areas may pick up characteristic due to it being a part of their evironment, and to blend in. Blending into your environment is an important method of survival.

Though there are still those that aren't from mixed backgrounds , and act like ethnic stereotypes.

Second, although I will grant you there are teens from Wonder Bread suburbs who dress and speak within the hip-hop cultural paradigm, white people have been imitating black culture for a looong time. It goes before Elvis, way back to jazz.

Theres a difference between Elvis and totally imitating black culture.

I really don't think it's such a big deal and I don't understand why you're going on about it.

It's just a phase for some who live in the wonderbreads, but it's still indirectly a form of discrimination, because it's " I don't know what I'm doing, and I don't care--its just cool" it down plays a struggling ethnicities way of recognization as something consumable to be thrown away later. A fad, and not a way of life.

This is a horribly ignorant explanation of the development of ebonics. Ebonics is based on West African...never mind, here, do yourself a favor and start to educate yourself on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

My bad. But still it came over from the slave trade, something that middle-class white kids from non-mixed areas would not understand the concept of being an ex-slave in todays society.
See I didn't know it developed from West Africa, and it would be arrogant for me to imitate it just because it's cool.

[Body Count]

Theres so much that can be said on this topic....so much, that its given me writers block!

Does it even need to be said that Americans of all races generally have more things in common then anyone else?

Why tie behavior to race at all?

Black kids who "act black" do it for the same fucking reasons that white kids do it. The only difference is that its more common and more accepted among blacks.

And lets get real here.....blacks have obviously been affecting whites for quite some time. It usually starts with whites critiquing black culture....then it turns into admiration....and before you know it, the entire history of subcultures/music/art/lifestyle is rewritten with some white dude at the forefront of it all.....

[Body Count]

Originally posted by EL KABLAMO@Jun 5 2006, 07:23 AM
Theres a difference between Elvis and totally imitating black culture.

No there isn't......

Elvis is the beta version of Eminem....

Now, unless "Theres a difference between Eminem and totally imitating black culture", then its really a solid comparison.

Even if it wasn't, what are you saying, "Its okay to imitate black folks a little bit but don't dive right in as that would be wrong"???

[Body Count]

Originally posted by EL KABLAMO@Jun 5 2006, 07:23 AM
It's just a phase for some who live in the wonderbreads, but it's still indirectly a form of discrimination, because it's " I don't know what I'm doing, and I don't care--its just cool" it down plays a struggling ethnicities way of recognization as something consumable to be thrown away later. A fad, and not a way of life.

Some white kid who see's some rap videos and starts acting like rappers isn't consciously thinking "Hey, thats a cool thing. I'm gonna act like that for awhile".....its just something that eventually developes that they have no control over. Is it more likely for a white kid in the suburbs to "grow out" of this black/hiphop/urban behavior? Sure. But I think that the "pretending" thing is overstanding the issue.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Body Count
Black kids who "act black" do it for the same fucking reasons that white kids do it. The only difference is that its more common and more accepted among blacks.

No um, you see most blacks are born into something like that culture.

And lets get real here.....blacks have obviously been affecting whites for quite some time. It usually starts with whites critiquing black culture....then it turns into admiration....and before you know it, the entire history of subcultures/music/art/lifestyle is rewritten with some white dude at the forefront of it all.....

A white dude at the forfront, when he should just shut up and listen isn't something to laugh about.

Elvis is the beta version of Eminem....

Eminem grew up in a predominately black area. Read what I've said about white people who have grown up in those areas. As with Elvis I'm not too sure what his area was like, maybe he had some black influences, and I'm sure he understood where it all came from, but he didn't start talking ebonics with an accent and walk differenly.

"Its okay to imitate black folks a little bit but don't dive right in as that would be wrong"???

Theres a difference between picking up influences and acting like you know how cold it is in the ghettos when you've never been there.

Some white kid who see's some rap videos and starts acting like rappers isn't consciously thinking "Hey, thats a cool thing. I'm gonna act like that for awhile".....

You'd be surprised.

its just something that eventually developes that they have no control over.

I had control over it.

Is it more likely for a white kid in the suburbs to "grow out" of this black/hiphop/urban behavior? Sure. But I think that the "pretending" thing is overstanding the issue.

Okay so maybe I didn't write this topic to everyones PC liking, but the point wouldn't have gotten across if it were "Suburban kids pretending to be urban".