Schools

[Dyst]

I realize this probably is not the "right" forum to post this in, but I actually felt it was.

I think one of the major problems of the current system is how we educate children. They are schooled in a very directional way, so they grow up to become the person society "wants" them to.

Also, I feel more than half of every children going to school is having psychological problems of some sort.

Humans are not "meant" to experience extreme repetition over a long period of time. Neither are we "meant" to follow orders all day long, doing things that actually are not meaningfull to us as individuals. Especially not humans below the age of ~16.

We only do it because we have to.

What do we do about the school system?

[piet11111]

the entire modern school system needs to be trashed currently schools are designed to produce humans turned into machines.

schools in my opinion need to be centered around the individuals interests and in the individuals own pace.
another thing i consider important is that kids need to get drivers lessons and english.
(i think its best if all communist nations take english as their first language to create more unity and less nationalism)

i know my career was bored to death by all the uninteresting crap that i was forced through in school.
also when it comes to schools themselfes i think its necessary to allow room for other things there aswell say a movie theater/concert hall and even a garage where they can learn some basic mechanical stuff.

[TC]

Ultimately i think eductaion under the post-graduate level is not about teaching people so much as it is about enculturating and socializing people into the capitalist social system. Most of what people 'learn' (a term i'd use loosely as its really memorizing things for exams and forgeting them later) is both uninteresting and utterly useless (there is no application for higher maths, pre-modern history, classical literature, or the technical aspects of hard sciences)...so i think you'd have to ask what the point is:

The point is to create what amounts to meaningless competition between students that both serves to differentiate them for later job market and to instill competitive, frankly anti-social mindsets that capitalism requires, as students learn that securing a place for themselves in society requires them to out perform their peers.

By starting this process young, it creates a feeling of irrational morality around competition. People think that its good to be a 'hard worker' even when the work is meaningless, they take satisfaction in 'a job well done' even when the job amounts to nothing, they feel genuine guilt and dread when they fail to perform at their peak abilities or skip work or class regardless of whether or not the consequences are significant. They also feel that they'll be rewarded if they just work harder than other people, and if they can't compete as efficently, that they're responsible for their own inferior status. These types of sentiments are both totally irrational and highly useful from the standpoint of creating a docile capitalist work force at every level.

[Wanted Man]

Indeed, TC. Replace the "education" system by revolutionary schooling collectives, the power relation between teachers and students is revolting.

[overthrowthebeast726]

Yep, that's why I left public school for independent study! I work at my own pace, and I don't have to deal with being taught what "they" only want me to know...

[Leo]

The first thing we need to do while creating a new school system is taking the old one as a model and doing the opposite of what they do.

No teachers!

They should be replaced with consultants, who would help in showing the direction one person should follow in order to reach knowledge, but are actually students, or learners for life.

No authority!

No power relationship between the person with the consultant and learner. No one telling the learners what they should do, no one telling them what is right or wrong. Consultants can give their own opinions, it is the reason they are were they are, but they can't give their opinions as the 'truth'. Every student should be free to reach their own moral, ethical and intellectual conclusions. Some things are obvious, they have give something to the society, they have to produce if they want society to give what it has to them, but no obligations.

No exams!

No forced memorization of knowledge for exams. If someone doesn't want to work in one particular topic, they don't have to. Everyone has a passion, everyone has an interest, that is what they should be working on, not something they hate. Everyone should be free to decide the path they will follow in life.

No class hours!

No learner should be obliged to do something at some specific time unless he agrees of doing so with consultants or other students. They learn whenever they want to learn, however they want to learn.

No punishments!

The object of schools in a communist society should be helping individuals to develop an understanding of the world around them, develop a moral, ethical and intellectual philosophy of their own and develop themselves in the areas they are interested, but they should first realize the necessity of the process they are going through, they should realize the necessity of realizing. No punishments, understanding.

No discipline!

The point of the school should not be creating an obediant population. It's whole point is helping the development. The school should never try to 'make' the learners do what they want.

In a capitalist society, the school is the first handcuff attached to our arms, our first arrest, first imprisonment. Majority loses their freedom in schools. In the communist society, school shoul be the opposite of what it is in the capitalist society. It should push the learners towards self-discovery, development and most importantly, deeper and conscious freedom.

[piet11111]

i do consider it of vital importance that everyone knows how to read and speak english.
also its important that kids are able to get into contact with certain topics otherwise they are locked into a very little world.

also i think its important that they do have a minimal set of hours that they are present in school (omg im sounding like a teacher )
otherwise they could decide to never even go there.
also class hours are necessary as we cant leave 14 year olds alone in a school building.
kids in a group tend to get very destructive as i know from my own experience.

[Dyst]

I believe there is a reason they tend to get very destructive while in a group.

I believe children are perhaps the most revolutionary group. This is before they have been completely beaten down by the shackles of "education" and authoritarianism.

[Lord Testicles]

I think the current schooling system is flawed; it needs to teach children how to learn and not just memorise.
It can also be patronising for some one who is nearing the end of their education or is academically mature, and it doesn’t give any freedom of expression that some pupils need or should have, schools should be there to help children question and learn so they can educate them selves in later life without being educationally stunted like some people are today. (by which i mean they dont seek knowledge)

[Janus]

There's really not much that can be done about the school system at this point by one single person except to establish study groups or tutoring sessions or something.

Sometimes, school is helpful and gets the student actively engaged in learning but most of the time it doesn't. It also depends on the teacher, some are very effective and others just make you sit down and copy notes and regugitate it on a test. Basically, school simply molds kids into normal people and doesn't really prepare students for actual jobs at all.

Also, more direct talks between the student and teacher are crucial though it could never really be truly one on one as there are only a finite amount of instructors. Parents should also become more involved in the teaching process especially if they're good at a specific subject or whatnot.

[DrFreeman09]

Ultimately, students need to be taught to THINK FOR THEMSELVES!!!!! This not stressed at all in the modern school system. So often, you are taught what your interperetation of something SHOULD be, and exams completely discourage the notion of individuallity and thinking differently. This would fix a lot of the problems with school.

A group of people along with myself are seriously considering making major, revolutionary changes in the near future. We have already gained a small crowd of supporters, and we fully plan on making a huge difference in the near future. It has started with a small underground newspaper, and it will continue with reeducation, electing STUDENTS to the school board (this is possible for seniors in High-School), and eventually creating a possibly militant action. It is very possible, and I encourage everyone in school to start a newspaper (in most schools, the school actually has to take you to court before they can make you stop distributing newspaper) and spread the word.

[Janus]

electing STUDENTS to the school board

Whoah! Where do you live?

and eventually creating a possibly militant action

In the school? Why not save that for an actual revolution. I was thinking more of establishing stufy groups and tutoring sessions at school or something.

[YSR]

Originally posted by piet
the entire modern school system needs to be trashed

Disagreed!

No, just kidding. But the term you used "modern school" is what Ferrier and the anarchist schools called themselves, "The Modern School". So that made me chuckle. Well, me anyway.

Speaking of which, does anyone have some good resources on the Modern School? I'm REALLY interested in learning more about it. I saw a documentary about Jewish labor anarchists in the US (from the 70's) that interviewed some old folks who had attended Modern Schools and it sounded positively amazing.

[piet11111]

Originally posted by Young Stupid Radical+May 13 2006, 05:45 AM--> (Young Stupid Radical @ May 13 2006, 05:45 AM)

piet

the entire modern school system needs to be trashed

Disagreed!

No, just kidding. But the term you used "modern school" is what Ferrier and the anarchist schools called themselves, "The Modern School". So that made me chuckle. Well, me anyway.

Speaking of which, does anyone have some good resources on the Modern School? I'm REALLY interested in learning more about it. I saw a documentary about Jewish labor anarchists in the US (from the 70's) that interviewed some old folks who had attended Modern Schools and it sounded positively amazing. [/b]

oops well i hope that everyone realises that i meant it in how education is currently being applied in schools.

[Leo]

"modern school" is what Ferrier and the anarchist schools called themselves, "The Modern School". So that made me chuckle. Well, me anyway.

Speaking of which, does anyone have some good resources on the Modern School? I'm REALLY interested in learning more about it. I saw a documentary about Jewish labor anarchists in the US (from the 70's) that interviewed some old folks who had attended Modern Schools and it sounded positively amazing."

Hm, I've heard of Ferrer, yes. The education system in Makhno's revolutionary Ukraine was based on his principles, and I hear pretty good things about "Makhnovshchina". Ahem, yes, I found this site in the net;

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archi...rer/origin.html

If you are interested in Modern School in the US, The Modern School Movement: Anarchism And Education In The United States by Paul Avrich is probably what you're looking for. I've read his book titled 'The Russian Anarchists' and I found it pretty succesful. Avrich was really objective. I think he recently passed away. 'The Russian Anarchists' is a really good book if you want to learn about that topic as well, it does talk about Makhno too.

[Revulero]

The only reason that there are schools in The US is because they are hoping that we go to college and become a business owner so we can help these imperialist get richer and suck other countries money. Something else i hate is that everything i ever learned at school is in the US point of view so they can convince you to think the US are the peacekeepers and not imperialist.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by piet11111@May 10 2006, 12:29 PM
(i think its best if all communist nations take english as their first language to create more unity and less nationalism)

Why english?

[Revulero]

Why not Spanish???????

There are more Spanish speakers than english speakers.........

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Revulero@May 17 2006, 08:42 PM
Why not Spanish???????

There are more Spanish speakers than english speakers.........

Why not Mandarin? There are more Mandarin-Chinese speakers than Spanish speakers.

[Cloud]

I actually had a conversation about this today with a friend, kinda coinky dink this was on the forum.

I don't believe in what "teachers" now use called lesson plans. Lesson plans are basically just telling a teacher what to teach, there is no individual learning, and there is no individual in the teacher. This also brings in the question, who should be teachers and what kinda teachers should there be? I believe there should be many many more classes then there are now currently with individual lessons in each. I dont mean a class for everything, there would still be basic learning classes (English, science, history, math) but there would be many more varieties you can choose of each, rather then the same shit every year. This would also come with my teacher idea, if the teacher was an actual teacher, the teacher would have many more various ways to teach something, and a more dirct way to help the student to learn.

I believe the student is to be in complete control over which classes he chooses to study. I believe the "credit" system is to still be followed, meaning a specific number of credits is required to graduate middle school, high school, etc:. This would create more possibilities for those who wish to study multiple subjects. I would also say that there are to be no "required" classes for students, but there should be higher and lower credits for some classes, meaning the more "recreational" classes having lower credit counts and the basic classics have higher credits.


The conversation i had with my friend today was based on what im about to type: Should there be rules in school? What was funny was that we had this conversation while my teacher was down at a meeting, which kinda showed the level of responsibility that i have as a student somewhat. But either way, i personally agree with there being no rules on class. Whether someone wishes to skip a class or be late, that is their choice, and they shall pay with it with their grades, not with detention and suspension. I think anyone "disrupting" a class because their pricks should simply be able to either choose to remove that class from their list of classes or the teacher should have the ability to remove that student from their class for that day and if a continuing amount of disruptions continue, the teacher should be able to remove that student from their class completly.

Of course im all for making history books truthful, for both international politics and politics within the country. This ties in with the free speach argument, but that is a different argument completly.