Communist economy

[OneBrickOneVoice]

I agree completely with marxism. however there is one thing that's a little shady to me. How will marxism bring a good life to everyone? How will it'll compete with other capitalistic nations to bring jobs in for our workers? How?

[redstar2000]

By and large, communist societies will almost certainly produce for their own use...not commodities for sale in whatever may remain of the "world marketplace".

From time to time, we may barter with a capitalist country for something which we really need and are not yet able to make for ourselves.

But even that would probably be very controversial...and might never actually happen.

[dislatino]

Bartering is a great system it worked before so why not in future, but in what way do you mean it to be controversial? do you mean "negotiating" with capitalists?

[anomaly]

I think bartering (that is, trade) with capitalist nations will be and should be very controversial.

It represents a 'capitalist act'. And that won't be looked at too kindly.

[cyu]

Let's say a revolution happens in your country and it goes communist / anarchist. The nation will still have a lot of foreign currencies in its treasury. What do you do with it? It's obvious that the rich are only rich because everybody else wants the little pieces of paper that they have. If nobody wanted it, they wouldn't be rich. But if your nation has a lot of foreign currency already, it would be a waste to simply burn it. All that money should be spent as soon as possible, buying up raw materials and equipment from around the world, from countries that still accept the currency. The goal is not to have paper wealth on your hands, but real wealth.

Once you spend all your foreign exchange, there will be more of it available in the market, leading to a fall in the value of that paper money (assuming your country had a lot of it). If you're lucky, this may then leading to panic spending in other nations, as they all want to get rid of the money before it loses all its value. This will help undermine capitalism around the world.

As far as trade after the revolution goes, I see no problem with getting goods you can't produce yourself from other countries. If you can't sell your own goods directly for the goods you need, then you'll have to accept foreign exchange for your sales. The idea is to spend that money as soon as possible, getting the things you need, instead of holding on to it. Treat it as if it has no real value, but get what you can get out of it while you still can.

The big problem with trading with capitalist nations is that the wealthy in those nations can offer more money in trade than everyone else. This will lead to the same problem you have in capitalist countries in which it results in a disproportionate number of people in your country having jobs that serve the wealthy in those capitalist nations. This would be a difficult problem to solve without promoting revolutions in those other nations as well (unless you want to cut off your nation from trade, which could be suicidal if your nation is small).

[OneBrickOneVoice]

But look, what about food and jobs and etc.. you need wealth to back it up in order to make a nice place to work, hire employees ship stuff etc... gold needs to back it all up. Cuba, although it is a dictatorship runs its economy in a fshion simialer to the way marx would. How come it is a such a poor country??

[Zingu]

On a personal basis, we would work as a co-operative society of voluntary individuals to produce what we need or maintain together, in which we basically plan what we need or want. In that case, we only would have to work together on an average of 3-4 hours a day (or less, depending on the technological level of automation and production).


Then the rest of our lives can be devoted to what we like to do, and fullfilling our potentional. This is where the rest of society is self-regulating, people's freedom will fullfill other people's needs, if I was fascinated in the human body and became a doctor, I would use my labor freely and productively to help other people as well as fulfilling myself with something I enjoy doing.

The sky isn't the limit, its beyond that!

[LSD]

But look, what about food and jobs and etc..

What about them?

Food will be locally produced for domestic consumption, with some exotic products undoubtably being imported. This food will then be evenly distributed based on specific dietary needs and wants.

And insofar as jobs, in a communist society, work will be undertaken by those with an interest in the field in question or those who chose to contribute time to it. You see, it really depends on what kind of "job" we're talking about here.

For example, many people who are involved in, say, computer programming may also choose to spend some time by the computer factory to help contribute to construction as well as to tweak the designs.

Likewise, someone with an interest in cars would go down to the car factory to realize his ideas on the subject.

Under capitalism, people are forced to reduce their interests to hobbies. They're required to keep their secondary interests to minor size as they cannot afford to do anything else. In communism, however, there is no capitalist class and there is no ownership of production so anyone with an interest in the subject can go and get involved.

This entire process is additionaly self-regulating as if there are too many people in a specific field of work, it will be immediately apparent. There would be lines at the factory and waiting lists at the door. And since humans are naturally impatient creatures, a good number of people will decide that it's not worth the wait and will go and work on something else.

Similarly if there are too few people working, then scarcity will develop and people -- especially people who want whatever is now scarce, will go and help make more of it. Also, those who are already working in whatever field will convince people they know to help them out.

It's the natural self-regulation of society. People don't like to be overcrowded and they don't like to be isolated or wantiong. And so when the technology and social progress are right, society doesn't need "masters" or "markets" to run itself.

you need wealth to back it up in order to make a nice place to work

"Wealth" is a capitalist term, it has no relevence in post-revolutionary society.

All that will be required to make workplaces "nice" will be productive labour something that will have absolutely no connection to "wealth" in a communist environment.

hire employees

There will be no "hiring" or "firing" of "employees" under communism. It is, after all, the abolition of wage-slavery that we are fighting for!

gold needs to back it all up.

I'm sorry? What does "gold" have to do with communist production?

Not even modern capitalism relies on a "gold standard" anymore, so why you would assume that a post-revolutionary society would is beyond me.

"Gold" is a yellow rock, nothing more; and in a non-capital economy, it will have no special importance.

Gold is occasionaly useful for certain industrial purposes, but beyond this it will have no significant use and certainly will not hold an especially important "role" in economic calculations.

Cuba, although it is a dictatorship runs its economy in a fshion simialer to the way marx would. How come it is a such a poor country??

Cuba is a poor country because it is a poor country.

Like the rest of Latin America, it is the victim of imperialism and colonialism and has been unable to sufficiently develop its technological infastructure so as to raise production above a third-world level.

Considering where it's coming from, however, it's done remarkably well.

And, in terms of whether or not Castro "runs [Cuba's] economy in a fashion similar to the way Marx would", Marx would not have attempted communism (or "socialism") in an isolated third world country and so the question is entirely fansical.

[cyu]

gold needs to back it all up.

I'm sorry? What does "gold" have to do with communist production?

Not even modern capitalism relies on a "gold standard" anymore, so why you would assume that a post-revolutionary society would is beyond me.

"Gold" is a yellow rock, nothing more; and in a non-capital economy, it will have no special importance.

Gold is occasionaly useful for certain industrial purposes, but beyond this it will have no significant use and certainly will not hold an especially important "role" in economic calculations.

Right. Gold started its use as a currency in much the same way as paper money. In the past, they simply agreed that a certain amount of gold was worth a bushel of wheat. For each gold coin the king issued, a bushel of wheat was kept in reserve. The gold coin would be redeemable for the wheat, so there was no inflation of the coins with respect to wheat. In other words, it was a "wheat standard".

Later on, when the move was made to using paper currency, they kept gold in reserve. But that was pretty much a silly concept. The value was never in the gold itself. The original backing of the currency was lost. It would be like backing a new currency with dollars. Neither has inherent value.

[England Expects]

Originally posted by Zingu@Apr 19 2006, 01:19 AM
On a personal basis, we would work as a co-operative society of voluntary individuals to produce what we need or maintain together, in which we basically plan what we need or want. In that case, we only would have to work together on an average of 3-4 hours a day (or less, depending on the technological level of automation and production).

Couldn't the people who are responsible for R&D of automated technology to work 8 hours a day to increase the level at which we produce?