Good question, I was about the ask the same thing. Whenever Collectivization seems to happen it goes horrible. Planned economies never seem to do much good either...there has got to be some answers.
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When Stalin attempted to 'collectivize' farms in the Soviet Union, he murdered millions and they ended up starving.
My questions are... at what stage does collectivization occur, in the process to reach Communism. And what happens when people don't want to give up their property to the collective? Is there an alternative to the Stalinist method?
Would you support an alternative to revolutionary collectivization... like gradual socialist reform of the system?
Good question, I was about the ask the same thing. Whenever Collectivization seems to happen it goes horrible. Planned economies never seem to do much good either...there has got to be some answers.
Modern capitalism eliminates the peasantry as a class. That's what "factory farms" are all about.
When the time comes for communist revolution, collectivizing agriculture will be no different than collectivizing any other modern industry.
So you can see that Stalin and Mao were premature...they tried to do something that can't be done in a backward economy except at gunpoint!
Castro was far more sensible on this issue. In a country full of peasants who demanded private ownership of land, he gave it to them.
And they still have it.
Which is why that even under the most adverse conditions, Cuba never had a famine.
Listen to the worm of doubt for it speaks truth.
The Redstar2000 Papers
Also see this NEW SITE:@nti-dialectics
I get your point....but, putting a number on the deaths that resulted from the collectivisation, is, in my opinion, very hard.
I think the Russian climate was likely the major reason for food shortages and starvation....and the hostility of the Peasants certainly didn't help.
The Russian Government undoubtedly could have done better, but they're certainly not guilty of "millions" of deaths with regards collectivisation....their involvement in this matter, in my opinion, doesn't really even reach the levels of Corporate Manslaughter.
There were a lot of bad policies throughout the Soviet Unions existence, but I think the collectivisation wasn't a "biggie"....in many ways, it was absolutely necessary.
I reckon it would be better to just give areas with lots of Peasants their "independence"....in other words, cut them adrift.
Goodbye North Wales!
Interestingly, this happened in Poland as well....and it could well be one of the reasons for Solidarity.
There's an interesting account on a wikipedia talk-page from a Hungarian fella'....if that account is accurate, then something like that may well happen in Cuba which has a similar arrangement with regards agriculture.
Certainly if Catholicism is as influential within the Cuban Peasantry as it was within Poland, then you know that's going to result in something bad.
So are you saying that for collectivization to work it has to be done in a slow manner?
Actually Stalinist style collectivisation was highly successful in Bulgaria where it not only increased agricultural production but was also fairly popular with the agricultural workers.
I don't support Stalinist style collectivisations, I support the formation of semi-autonomous rural communes as the basic building block of rural communism, but collectivisation did not fail everywhere.
"In reality, the difference is, that the savage lives within himself while social man lives outside himself and can only live in the opinion of others, so that he seems to receive the feeling of his own existence only from the judgement of others concerning him."- Jean-Jacques Rousseau
"The emancipation of the working class must be the work of the workers themselves.â€- Flora Tristan
"Both those on the East and those on the West should be clear with the fact that we are not moving away from our road that we beat the path for in '48. That is to say, that we have our own ways. We always bravely say what is right on this side and what is not, and what is right on the other side, and what is not. It should be clear to everyone that we cannot be an appendage to anybody's politics, that we have our own point of view and that we know the worth of what is right, and what is not right."- Josip Tito
Was there not voluntary collectivisation among both workers and peasants in Spain?
Names: Haraldur, Cult of Reason
Transhumanist Platformist Anarchist Communist Technocrat (Black Red Grey) / Technocratic Federalist
Technocracy Study Course Anarchist FAQ Sustainable Energy - Without The Hot Air
Where Communism/<insert abundant system here> is possible: Full Report & Synopsis
If links no longer work, PM me.
Socialism: Worker control of the means of production and distribution.
THOU SHALT NOT ATTEMPT TO DEFY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS.
Didn't Lenin do the same thing?...yes, he did.
The POUM and CNT collectivised highly successfully but let peasants run collectives how they wanted to and collectivised how they wanted to. Collectivising at hte barrel of a gun doesnt work.
In what relations do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.
-Karl Marx
It is only by strengthening ourselves ideologically, inculcating in ourselves the values and ideals of the struggle and building up the ranks of the revolutionary party that we will make it.
- Ta Power
Indeed.
I think I should stop posting rhetorical questions.
Names: Haraldur, Cult of Reason
Transhumanist Platformist Anarchist Communist Technocrat (Black Red Grey) / Technocratic Federalist
Technocracy Study Course Anarchist FAQ Sustainable Energy - Without The Hot Air
Where Communism/<insert abundant system here> is possible: Full Report & Synopsis
If links no longer work, PM me.
Socialism: Worker control of the means of production and distribution.
THOU SHALT NOT ATTEMPT TO DEFY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS.
