Where does preference end and discrimination begin

[which doctor]

I have recently been wondering where preference over one type of person end and discrimination begin?

Doesn't a straight man who thinks as a naked woman as beautiful, but a naked man disgusting discriminate against men?

Is someone who prefers sexual relations with one race over another racist?

Is someone who thinks old people having sex ageism?

All these questions and many more for you to discuss.

[C_Rasmussen]

Yeah I've noticed this kind of thing on this site. Someone says that they're attracted to a girl but wouldn't look at a guy and are labeled as homophobic. Its a person's PREFERENCE. Personally for me I sure as Hell wouldn't want to see a guy nude as opposed to a girl but then again thats just a preference. I'm kind of starting to wonder if people here are going a bit crazy and jumping the gun on labeling people. Once again on the issue of race it's just considered preference but also once again if you're white and say you wouldn't want to be with a black (or other non-white race) you're labeled racist for some odd reason when in reality its just what you prefer. Now I could see if you were to say that "gays shouldn't ever have sex" then yes that would be homophobic and if you were to say that [insert nonwhite race here] is gross and you wouldn't want to go near them then yes that would be racist. I just wish people wouldn't be so damn quick to call someone something based on someone's preference.

[Black Dagger]

I have recently been wondering where preference over one type of person end and discrimination begin?

It's very mirky indeed.

Doesn't a straight man who thinks as a naked woman as beautiful, but a naked man disgusting discriminate against men?

It's likely yes, certainly that man has a quite immature/insecure sexuality. It is quite silly for a heterosexual man to say that 'naked men' are 'disgusting'- how does he stand looking at himself? Heterosexual pornography? Semi-naked men in sports?

I think when people use words like 'disgusting' to describe same-sex relationships/sex they're definately opening themselves up to criticism and suspicions of homophobia. There's a significant difference between a heterosexual man looking at the naked body of another man, or two men kissing, or having sex, and not being aroused by the sight, to saying that it is 'disgusting'- when someone claims that the human form (because of 'gender&#39 or human sexualities are 'disgusting' ('repugnant' or something equally emotive) - they're extending their reaction from merely a lack of arousal to something that is almost condemnation.

There is also the issue of sexual insecurity which affects many heterosexual men, being so insecure with one's own sexuality, their minds embedded with this socio-cultural fear of queer sexualities (fear of the aggressive gay rapist etc.), and perhaps also a residual (or very present) moral repulsion grounded in religious ideas/'values'- that may lead them to such responses. The reality is of course that this insecurity can quite easily be translated into homophobia, discrimination, homophobic speech and so forth.

Is someone who prefers sexual relations with one race over another racist?

This is a bit silly considering that the 'racial' boundaries that divide humans have been so thoroughly obliterated, but with the previous question, there is definately a potential for prejudic as a motivating factor.

This is known as sexual racism and is a significant issue within the queer community, which you can read about here: http://www.sexualracismsux.com/ Basically there is a trend for people to make declarations in personals, adult pages and so forth, that are 'racially exclusionary' "NO GAMs" (gay asian males) for example, basically excluding a large group of people purely based on 'race'- they need not reply because this person finds asian men unattractive/undesirable/annoying/who knows?

When i said before that it was silly, i didnt mean to trivialise the issue, but the idea that someone can say 'i'm not attracted to blacks/whites/asians/etc' seems really illogical and narrow-minded. Have they seen every 'black' person in the world? How do they know that they won't be attracted to an asian man?

This is where it gets problematic. The people who are making these declarations are making generalisations, they're saying that there are 'these people who are asian, they all have these features, and these are features that i dont find attractive' or that 'these people who are white act in this way, and to me its a turn-off' - these kinds of statements homogenise A LOT of people, and also givs creedence to the idea that there are clearly defined 'racial' groups within society, with specific physical attributes, behaviours and so forth.

The issue is less problematic when people express their 'prefences' in a non-exclusionary way, which is something that the people at http://www.sexualracismsux.com/ address. Positively instead of negatively framing our prefences is definately a 'nicer' way of doing things, but it still doesnt confront the issue of 'racial' prefences head-on.

It's a very complex issue, and i'm struggling to come up with a definitive response :P
So i'll try and tie it up with this, expressing preferences is different to whole-sale exclusion, people who say that they prefer 'men of colour' are not excluding the possibility that there will be a white guy that they might find attractive. But saying 'i don't find asian men attractive' is exclusionary, and would definately make me second-guess that persons motivations. Moreover, how someone forms a basis for a preference, how they justify it, is very important, and could provide a more definitive answer as to whether their position is founded in racism.

For example, someone might have a preference for a particular trait, say small bums, or big bums, or small breasts and so forth, and then because they perceive that this trait is more common amongst a specific group of people they will say that they have a preference for that group. However, if someone who is not a part of this group also has this trait there's a very good chance that they will find that person attractive too. In this instance their preferences is grounded not as much in 'race' as it is in liking small bums, it's not a 'racially' exclusionary preference, but it is nevertheless based in the idea that a specific group is more likely to have trait X than another group, which may of course be complete bollocks, but is not definitively racist.

Is someone who thinks old people having sex ageism?

No, but it's silly/immature, they'll be old one day too after all. The issue of 'old people' having sex is very different from 'race issues' and issues of sexuality- the latter manifest themselves in very serious ways structurally in society, and such prejudices can have an immense effect on an individuals life, have deep histories and so forth.

Yeah I've noticed this kind of thing on this site. Someone says that they're attracted to a girl but wouldn't look at a guy and are labeled as homophobic.

No, they're not, you're misrepresenting the discussions. There is a difference between being a heterosexual, and being a homophobic heterosexual, expressing heterosexual desires and expressing disgust for same-sex relationships or people of your sex are not the same thing.

Its a person's PREFERENCE. Personally for me I sure as Hell wouldn't want to see a guy nude

Grow up!

Once again on the issue of race it's just considered preference but also once again if you're white and say you wouldn't want to be with a black (or other non-white race) you're labeled racist for some odd reason when in reality its just what you prefer.

Do you prefer white womyn? Why?

What reasons do you think a white person would have for preferring white over black peoples?

To saying that they don't find black people attractive?

if you were to say that [insert nonwhite race here] is gross and you wouldn't want to go near them then yes that would be racist.

But saying that you find naked men or gay sex 'gross' isn't homophobic?

[redstar2000]

Off-topic note: Trolling the internet looking for sex partners doesn't strike me as the smartest thing to do!

[TC]

I have recently been wondering where preference over one type of person end and discrimination begin?

I think it depends on what the preference concerns, if the preference is arbitrary or if its preference based on the ability to perform a function. For instance, if a McDonald's manager only wants to hire pretty white students to work the counters, that would be arbitrary discrimination. On the other hand, if a theater director refuses to audition anyone for the role of Othello who isn't an adult black man, even though there might very well be white teenage girls and old asian women who can read the lines and act the part just as well, the theater director isn't being racist/ageist/sexist because the role calls for an adult black man and being one is part of the requirements for fulfilling the part, its essential to the job function.

When it comes to deciding who you want to go out with or date or have as a boyfriend or girlfriend, being sexually attracted to them is part of the 'job function', its essential to the role, and sexual attraction always has a great deal to do with physical apperance (its not everything but its a big part and virtually everyone has some set of minimal physical criteria). So picking partners exclusively from a sex, age range and ethnicity or group of ethnicities that you prefer is perfectly reasonable.

Doesn't a straight man who thinks as a naked woman as beautiful, but a naked man disgusting discriminate against men?

No and i think the way this question is phrased shows how silly the question is. He isn't sexist against men, he's a man, to think that he's sexist against other men because he doesn't prefer to look at them nude is nuts.

And it should be pointed out, i think, that he doesn't just prefer women to men, he prefers certain women to men...he probably doesn't care for women of a certain body type or that are too young or too old as well. People are physically attracted to apperance, not to race, sex, or age, but those three things pretty much determine the range of apperance.

(incidentally i don't think anyone actually thinks seeing people from their own demographic naked is 'disgusting' unless they're performing some kindof sexual activity, but it might make them feel uncomfortable)




I think Black Dagger you really crossed the line into absolutely absurd political correctness with your post here.

This is a bit silly considering that the 'racial' boundaries that divide humans have been so thoroughly obliterated, but with the previous question, there is definately a potential for prejudic as a motivating factor.

Race has never existed as a biologically distinct concept, what we know as races are simply populations identifiable by different visible genetic clines...but the fact that you can still look at someone and say that they're black, white, east asian or south asian, means that they are still meaningful for catagorizing people based on apperance. Were races truely obliterated it would be impossible to tell a 'white' person from a 'black' person, and it is not, the fact that these catagories are social inventions doesn't change the fact of them.

The idea that some white people are blonde and some are brunette is also a distinction has no clear boundaries towards the middle range of coloring, but its still a useful shorthand for describing people who aren't in the middle. The same is true of race except that race applies to a collection of characteristics instead of just one.

This is known as sexual racism and is a significant issue within the queer community, which you can read about here: http://www.sexualracismsux.com/ Basically there is a trend for people to make declarations in personals, adult pages and so forth, that are 'racially exclusionary' "NO GAMs" (gay asian males) for example, basically excluding a large group of people purely based on 'race'- they need not reply because this person finds asian men unattractive/undesirable/annoying/who knows?

lol i so doubt its a 'significant issue' except to the handful of people who have decided to politicize it...i suggest that gay asian males who are pissed about gay men descriminating against them for their race should go bother straight guys who descriminate against them based on their sex lol. And for non-asian gay queer males who are just so f'ed up over their political correctness, if their into asian guys, i'd suggest they'd date one themselves instad of bugging other people to do it.

No one is just entitled to people being sexually attracted to them like its some kindof right, people like what they like its not something they have a particular choice over, either someone turns you on or they don't.

The idea of sexual racism makes about as much sense as sexual sexism or sexual ageism. You can’t control your age or sex anymore than you can your race.

When i said before that it was silly, i didnt mean to trivialise the issue, but the idea that someone can say 'i'm not attracted to blacks/whites/asians/etc' seems really illogical and narrow-minded. Have they seen every 'black' person in the world? How do they know that they won't be attracted to an asian man?

You don’t have to have seen everyone of a given group to know that you’d not be attracted to them. Would you pose the question “how do you know that you won’t be attracted to an asian man’ to a lesbian? You can use the same claims with sex, or for that matter species; I mean have you seen all dogs in the world, how would you know you wouldn’t like one? How about age? Have you seen every child in the world, how do you know you wouldn’t be attracted to a young child?

You know because you know what type of physical characteristics you’re sexually attracted to and which turn you off, and you know that they’re simply not found in all races, genders, age groups or species.

How about thinking that you don’t like short guys, fat guys, or bald guys? Do you need to know all of them and think ‘mmmm, he doesn’t turn me on, wonder if the next short/fat/bald guy would?’ No, because the fact that they’re short, fat or bald is enough to know that you wouldn’t be sexually interested in them if those features are significant turn offs for you, knowing someone’s race is the same way if you don’t find a certain race attractive.

This is where it gets problematic. The people who are making these declarations are making generalisations, they're saying that there are 'these people who are asian, they all have these features, and these are features that i dont find attractive' or that 'these people who are white act in this way, and to me its a turn-off' - these kinds of statements homogenise A LOT of people, and also givs creedence to the idea that there are clearly defined 'racial' groups within society, with specific physical attributes, behaviours and so forth.

Races do have physical attributes, thats exactly how people characterize race. No one would claim that Tony Blair is black or asian, even if he had a black or asian ancestor, because he doesn't look black or asian, anymore than someone would claim that Tony Blair was female. Condi Rice will likewise never be catagorized as white. People who tend to go for people who look more like Tony Blair then like Condi Rice (I realize that using the two of them as examples is increasingly silly) have every reason to specify in their personal ads and when talking to friends about people they could be set up with, surely reduces the number of bad dates they go on.

And I don’t know why you think it has anything to do with behaviour when the issue is probably appearance.

For example, someone might have a preference for a particular trait, say small bums, or big bums, or small breasts and so forth, and then because they perceive that this trait is more common amongst a specific group of people they will say that they have a preference for that group. However, if someone who is not a part of this group also has this trait there's a very good chance that they will find that person attractive too. In this instance their preferences is grounded not as much in 'race' as it is in liking small bums, it's not a 'racially' exclusionary preference, but it is nevertheless based in the idea that a specific group is more likely to have trait X than another group, which may of course be complete bollocks, but is not definitively racist.

Soooo its okay to have a preference for a particular butt or breast size but not okay to have a preference for a particular skin color, presence or absence epicanthic eye folds, nose shape or hair type, or other characteristics used for recognizing race?

What if someone just happens to strongly prefer tall wavy haired blonde guys with double eyelids and fair skin and narrow noses (that was their ‘type’), is that racist...it would clearly amount to excluding guys who didn’t have at least some European ancestry. I don’t think its remotely ‘racist’ though its simply a recognition of a sexual preference, its not like a moral judgement or a refusal to associate with anyone who doesn’t fit that description. Refusal to have sex with them or have a relationship maybe, but those are precisely the sort of things people are entitled to refuse based simply on arbitrary tastes.

I’ve actually had guy’s make comments like ‘you don’t want to go out with me cause I’m black right?’(though clearly there are plenty of other good reasons not to want to go out with someone pushy enough to say that). Its like, if you can translate ‘not my type’ into a racial category it all of a sudden becomes unacceptable. It makes no sense to say you can exclude people of your own race or of a race you typically date based on appearance but you can’t exclude people of races you don’t typically date based on appearance.

The issue of 'old people' having sex is very different from 'race issues' and issues of sexuality- the latter manifest themselves in very serious ways structurally in society, and such prejudices can have an immense effect on an individuals life, have deep histories and so forth.

Oh please. Someone who can’t get a date from someone because they’re too old or too young is no different then someone who can’t get a date from someone because they’re not of the race they prefer, the effect is the same, they’re prevented from having something they want based on physical attributes they can do nothing to change.

Do you prefer white womyn? Why?

What reasons do you think a white person would have for preferring white over black peoples?

Asking why someone prefers white women is about as meaningful as asking someone why someone prefers women at all. Its like asking a lesbian ‘why do you prefer girls, don’t you think you need to hold out for the possibility that you might be attracted to a guy, you just assume because they’re a guy they have certain attributes you don’t like, but have you really met all of them; you are just excluding people out of sexism.’


I can’t justify being attracted to white men over black men anymore than I can justify preferring men over women or people close to my age over people much older than me. For that matter I can’t justify preferring chocolate ice cream over strawberry ice cream. These are simply issues of taste and knowing what you like, you don’t have to.

But saying that you find naked men or gay sex 'gross' isn't homophobic?

I have a hard time believing that anyone other than some lesbians and prepubescent girls actually finds all naked guy’s bodies gross, since presumably everyone else is either attracted to some of them or has to look at one every time they get dressed, but that aside; no its not homophobic. I think strawberry ice cream is gross but that doesn’t mean I want to ban its sale and production or suggest that anyone who eats strawberry ice cream is going to hell or is a bad person in some regard. You cannot assume a moral dimension in matters of taste.

Off-topic note: Trolling the internet looking for sex partners doesn't strike me as the smartest thing to do!

lol Redstar just reduced gay dating and personals to sexual activity…I assume Black Dagger will be calling for you to be restricted to OI now lol.





Anyways, you know the phrase 'race is only skin deep?' Its true...but it just so happens that sexual physical attraction is also only about that deep.

[chimx]

Originally posted by redstar2000@Mar 22 2006, 02:16 PM
Off-topic note: Trolling the internet looking for sex partners doesn't strike me as the smartest thing to do!

yeah, that's what myspace is for.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by TragicClown
You cannot assume a moral dimension in matters of taste.

It has been argued by some that "sexual attraction" (at least among heteros) "is genetic"...we like "different" but "not too different".

In today's climate of "political correctness" (as opposed to actual revolutionary politics), I would suggest that you should choose your partners as you please but be careful what terms you structure your preferences in verbally.

Unless you like catching a lot of flak!

Negative preferences are "ok" as long as they're never explicitly articulated.

lol Redstar just reduced gay dating and personals to sexual activity…I assume Black Dagger will be calling for you to be restricted to OI now lol.

After the last few months, nothing would surprise me.

[Sentinel]

In my opinion, saying that you prefer something sexually, or find something more attractive than anything else, isn't discrimination. It's a matter of taste, and shouldn't be dramatised. But when you start talking about what you dislike, things get complicated indeed.

Saying you dislike the look of a "race" is offending, naturally, and unacceptable imo.

What about gay sex? Why tell people that you find something (happening between consenting adults) disgusting or repulsive? If you find something such, you have a problem, and the problem is literally inside your head. Why bring it to the sunlight? That is rude and insulting towards people. It's poor social behavior.

But that's not really the problem; homophobia and racism are more complicated issues than that.

Negative comments about queer people in a predominantly straight community, or say blacks in a mostly white one send signals, stretch the borders of what is acceptable to say. Therefore, saying you dislike a discriminated group in any sense, contributes to an already existing discriminatory atmosphere.

Homophobia and racism have a tendency to sneak themselves upon us, if we aren't watchful. They often start out in a group of people looking "harmless", in shape of expressed dislike.

One individual says he personally finds something "disgusting". Then someone else makes a couple of "jokes", ridiculing the "disgusting people". An "us and them" mentality forms. The whole thing accelerates, finally turning into outright hatred if not confronted.

I think the absolutely best approach is to tackle these problems on first sign, with the risk of looking "overreactive". It's a risk worth taking, considering the possible alternatives.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Black Dagger@Mar 22 2006, 05:29 AM

I have recently been wondering where preference over one type of person end and discrimination begin?

It's very mirky indeed.

Doesn't a straight man who thinks as a naked woman as beautiful, but a naked man disgusting discriminate against men?

It's likely yes, certainly that man has a quite immature/insecure sexuality. It is quite silly for a heterosexual man to say that 'naked men' are 'disgusting'- how does he stand looking at himself? Heterosexual pornography? Semi-naked men in sports?

I think when people use words like 'disgusting' to describe same-sex relationships/sex they're definately opening themselves up to criticism and suspicions of homophobia. There's a significant difference between a heterosexual man looking at the naked body of another man, or two men kissing, or having sex, and not being aroused by the sight, to saying that it is 'disgusting'- when someone claims that the human form (because of 'gender&#39 or human sexualities are 'disgusting' ('repugnant' or something equally emotive) - they're extending their reaction from merely a lack of arousal to something that is almost condemnation.

There is also the issue of sexual insecurity which affects many heterosexual men, being so insecure with one's own sexuality, their minds embedded with this socio-cultural fear of queer sexualities (fear of the aggressive gay rapist etc.), and perhaps also a residual (or very present) moral repulsion grounded in religious ideas/'values'- that may lead them to such responses. The reality is of course that this insecurity can quite easily be translated into homophobia, discrimination, homophobic speech and so forth.

Is someone who prefers sexual relations with one race over another racist?

This is a bit silly considering that the 'racial' boundaries that divide humans have been so thoroughly obliterated, but with the previous question, there is definately a potential for prejudic as a motivating factor.

This is known as sexual racism and is a significant issue within the queer community, which you can read about here: http://www.sexualracismsux.com/ Basically there is a trend for people to make declarations in personals, adult pages and so forth, that are 'racially exclusionary' "NO GAMs" (gay asian males) for example, basically excluding a large group of people purely based on 'race'- they need not reply because this person finds asian men unattractive/undesirable/annoying/who knows?

When i said before that it was silly, i didnt mean to trivialise the issue, but the idea that someone can say 'i'm not attracted to blacks/whites/asians/etc' seems really illogical and narrow-minded. Have they seen every 'black' person in the world? How do they know that they won't be attracted to an asian man?

This is where it gets problematic. The people who are making these declarations are making generalisations, they're saying that there are 'these people who are asian, they all have these features, and these are features that i dont find attractive' or that 'these people who are white act in this way, and to me its a turn-off' - these kinds of statements homogenise A LOT of people, and also givs creedence to the idea that there are clearly defined 'racial' groups within society, with specific physical attributes, behaviours and so forth.

The issue is less problematic when people express their 'prefences' in a non-exclusionary way, which is something that the people at http://www.sexualracismsux.com/ address. Positively instead of negatively framing our prefences is definately a 'nicer' way of doing things, but it still doesnt confront the issue of 'racial' prefences head-on.

It's a very complex issue, and i'm struggling to come up with a definitive response :P
So i'll try and tie it up with this, expressing preferences is different to whole-sale exclusion, people who say that they prefer 'men of colour' are not excluding the possibility that there will be a white guy that they might find attractive. But saying 'i don't find asian men attractive' is exclusionary, and would definately make me second-guess that persons motivations. Moreover, how someone forms a basis for a preference, how they justify it, is very important, and could provide a more definitive answer as to whether their position is founded in racism.

For example, someone might have a preference for a particular trait, say small bums, or big bums, or small breasts and so forth, and then because they perceive that this trait is more common amongst a specific group of people they will say that they have a preference for that group. However, if someone who is not a part of this group also has this trait there's a very good chance that they will find that person attractive too. In this instance their preferences is grounded not as much in 'race' as it is in liking small bums, it's not a 'racially' exclusionary preference, but it is nevertheless based in the idea that a specific group is more likely to have trait X than another group, which may of course be complete bollocks, but is not definitively racist.

Is someone who thinks old people having sex ageism?

No, but it's silly/immature, they'll be old one day too after all. The issue of 'old people' having sex is very different from 'race issues' and issues of sexuality- the latter manifest themselves in very serious ways structurally in society, and such prejudices can have an immense effect on an individuals life, have deep histories and so forth.

Yeah I've noticed this kind of thing on this site. Someone says that they're attracted to a girl but wouldn't look at a guy and are labeled as homophobic.

No, they're not, you're misrepresenting the discussions. There is a difference between being a heterosexual, and being a homophobic heterosexual, expressing heterosexual desires and expressing disgust for same-sex relationships or people of your sex are not the same thing.

Its a person's PREFERENCE. Personally for me I sure as Hell wouldn't want to see a guy nude

Grow up!

Once again on the issue of race it's just considered preference but also once again if you're white and say you wouldn't want to be with a black (or other non-white race) you're labeled racist for some odd reason when in reality its just what you prefer.

Do you prefer white womyn? Why?

What reasons do you think a white person would have for preferring white over black peoples?

To saying that they don't find black people attractive?

if you were to say that [insert nonwhite race here] is gross and you wouldn't want to go near them then yes that would be racist.

But saying that you find naked men or gay sex 'gross' isn't homophobic?

1. I was just giving a good example of what I was talking about <_<.

2. Well shit, I can&#39;t help it that I&#39;m attracted to white people. Nothing against blacks but I just can&#39;t seem to be attracted to them. You&#39;re making it seem as its a crime for a white to be attracted to a white. That or you make it seem like its a bad thing when once again I was just giving an EXAMPLE.

[Body Count]

I consider perceptions of beauty to be malleable just like most things...

I do believe there is more to picking a partner then just attraction and other obvious things (Personality, compatibility, etc).

Racism is certainly involved when people won&#39;t get with a certain race because they don&#39;t want "bad genes" or something like that.

I think that sexual racism and sexual oppression exist.

[Chrysalis]

Originally posted by The Sentinel@Mar 23 2006, 01:48 AM
In my opinion, saying that you prefer something sexually, or find something more attractive than anything else, isn&#39;t discrimination. It&#39;s a matter of taste, and shouldn&#39;t be dramatised. But when you start talking about what you dislike, things get complicated indeed.

I think this is a good point and deserves to be elaborated a bit more. There is something about "positive" terms that express preferences and tastes that cannot be said about "negative" terms, like dislike, or the harsher locution----hate. The implication for saying that one prefers something is that, other kinds, whatever kind we are talking about, get a neutral treatment in the expression. If I say I prefer heterosexual relationship, I do not at the same time imply that I hate or dislike homosexual or asexual relationship (whatever this means), only that I reserve the right to not say anything about them.

Now, is this just a roundabout way of skirting the issue? No, not at all.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by Chrysalis+Mar 25 2006, 10:39 PM--> (Chrysalis @ Mar 25 2006, 10:39 PM)

The Sentinel

@Mar 23 2006, 01:48 AM
In my opinion, saying that you prefer something sexually, or find something more attractive than anything else, isn&#39;t discrimination. It&#39;s a matter of taste, and shouldn&#39;t be dramatised. But when you start talking about what you dislike, things get complicated indeed.

I think this is a good point and deserves to be elaborated a bit more. There is something about "positive" terms that express preferences and tastes that cannot be said about "negative" terms, like dislike, or the harsher locution----hate. The implication for saying that one prefers something is that, other kinds, whatever kind we are talking about, get a neutral treatment in the expression. If I say I prefer heterosexual relationship, I do not at the same time imply that I hate or dislike homosexual or asexual relationship (whatever this means), only that I reserve the right to not say anything about them.

Now, is this just a roundabout way of skirting the issue? No, not at all. [/b]

I agree completely. It&#39;s very different to say "I prefer A" with the implication that you don&#39;t find A particularly appealing but aren&#39;t overly negative towards it to it; than to say "I find B repulsive."

I also find the way people define their preferenes can be unsettling. For example, to claim that you don&#39;t find a particular &#39;race&#39; attractive at all is painting with an extraordinarily broad brush. And generalising in that way is one of the cornerstones of racist thought. Again, framing this as a preference would imply that you aren&#39;t particularly keen on one group, but doesn&#39;t exclude them altogether.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by Fist of Blood@Mar 22 2006, 04:14 AM
I have recently been wondering where preference over one type of person end and discrimination begin?

Doesn&#39;t a straight man who thinks as a naked woman as beautiful, but a naked man disgusting discriminate against men?

Is someone who prefers sexual relations with one race over another racist?

Is someone who thinks old people having sex ageism?

All these questions and many more for you to discuss.

Yes; favoritism is still a form of undue discrimination. Racism is having a pre-desposition to a person or group of people of an ethnicity (most commanly a different ethnicity), simply because they are of a certain ethnicity. If you like latina women more than white women simply because they are latina, tyou are still a racist.

Personaly, I can&#39;t understand Asian sexual prefences; yeah, I like Asian women... and white women... and black women... and Latina women. Really, I like all women sexually if they&#39;re hot, not just women of a certain ethnicity.

[dislatino]

Personaly, I can&#39;t understand Asian sexual prefences; yeah, I like Asian women... and white women... and black women... and Latina women. Really, I like all women sexually if they&#39;re hot, not just women of a certain ethnicity.

Lol, is that just me or does that sound kind of funny, but yeah i know what your saying, its a dodgy one really.

[edit] lol, actually revising the statement now, i realise its very correct, my problem was i took the line "not just women of a certain ethnicity." in a different way when i read it.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by redstar2000@Mar 22 2006, 09:22 AM
Off-topic note: Trolling the internet looking for sex partners doesn&#39;t strike me as the smartest thing to do&#33;

This sounds like it&#39;s from personal experience.

[Black Dagger]

alot of "Asian fetishism" is based on prejudice and stereotypes of East Asian women as quiet and subservient to men.

And this not something that is restricted to just heterosexual relationships.

Queer asian men get the same shit that hetero asian womyn do. Queer asian men are feminised in the same that asian womyn are, because of this &#39;western&#39; obsession with the docile and submissive &#39;asian&#39;, asian men are &#39;bottoms&#39; not &#39;tops&#39;, they&#39;re &#39;meek&#39; and &#39;frail&#39;.

[Chrysalis]

Originally posted by Mujer Libre@Mar 26 2006, 01:05 AM

I also find the way people define their preferenes can be unsettling. For example, to claim that you don&#39;t find a particular &#39;race&#39; attractive at all is painting with an extraordinarily broad brush. And generalising in that way is one of the cornerstones of racist thought. Again, framing this as a preference would imply that you aren&#39;t particularly keen on one group, but doesn&#39;t exclude them altogether.

Yes. Very much so. Stereotyping (or generalizing) about is very difficult to avoid. It&#39;s imbued in our daily thinking: when we&#39;re thinking uncritically.

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by CompañeroDeLibertad@Mar 26 2006, 02:47 AM
Alot of "Asian fetishism" is based on prejudice and stereotypes of East Asian women as quiet and subservient to men.

I think that could explain the phenomenon in a limited sense but also the perception about Asian woman’s physicality, I.e. the perception of small breasts and thinness. this is counterposed with the Japanese having fetishism for western women for the persection that they have larger breasts.

But I don’t think having submissive and dominate roles within a relationship are inherently oppressive if both choose to enter the relationship under such pretences.

[TC]

In today&#39;s climate of "political correctness" (as opposed to actual revolutionary politics), I would suggest that you should choose your partners as you please but be careful what terms you structure your preferences in verbally.

Unless you like catching a lot of flak&#33;

Negative preferences are "ok" as long as they&#39;re never explicitly articulated.

lol well i wouldn&#39;t suggest actually telling a guy that you think he&#39;s too short and not nice enough looking either...but we&#39;re talking about whats racist not whats socially appropriate to tell someone.

I do believe there is more to picking a partner then just attraction and other obvious things (Personality, compatibility, etc).

Yes obviously but you need to both be attracted to someones personality and physicality to want them as a partner...if you&#39;re only physically attracted you&#39;d only want them for sex if that and if you&#39;re only attracted to their personality you&#39;d just want them as a friend.

Racism is certainly involved when people won&#39;t get with a certain race because they don&#39;t want "bad genes" or something like that.

Well if you feel that a certain race has &#39;bad genes&#39; thats certaintly racist, and if you wouldn&#39;t want your children or relatives to date someone from a race with &#39;bad genes&#39; that would definately be racist...but if you just aren&#39;t attracted to a certain race, thats just an aesthetic preference not a belief in any sort of moral or natural superiority.

It is a bad thing you fucking twit. Grouping all "blacks" into a mass that you "don&#39;t find attractive" is disgusting.

If you don&#39;t get turned on when you look at black people, you&#39;re not grouping them all into a mass that you don&#39;t find attractive, they simply happen to be people you don&#39;t find attractive, along with most people of any race. Is it disgusting to group all boys or all girls into the majority of people who you don&#39;t find attractive?

You should judge people on an individual basis as far as this goes, not make sweeping generalizations based on ignorace.

How about generalizing that you prefer tall men, or blonde girls, or well built guys, or older women or whatever? Sure there might be exceptions, but if you know what you like, theres nothing wrong with making generalizations when its applicable in *most* cases (especially when, for instance, writing gay personal ads to use Black Dagger&#39;s example and trying to reduce the number of guys you wont like writing to you).

And TragicClown, all chocolate ice cream taste like chocolate, and all women belong to one of two biologically based parts of humanity (sexes), but not all "black" people are the same. In other words, your analogy sucks.

Uh, not all women or chocolate ice cream are the same either. Chocolate ice cream always tastes like chocholate but theres lots of variation in the individual taste. Black people always look black (otherwise, people would refer to them as mixed race or some other race), even though there is obviously infinante variation in apperance, it is still within a range of apperance. Likewise, short people are always short, by definition, of course they&#39;re not the same, but they are similar in regard to certain aspects of their physical apperance. If you don&#39;t go for that you don&#39;t go for that, its no political statement its simply a personal preference like any other sexual preference.

If you like latina women more than white women simply because they are latina, tyou are still a racist.

But thats not really how it works at all for non-racists with racial preferences. They don&#39;t like Latina women because they&#39;re Latina, rather of all of the women they like, most of them simply happen to be Latina...there preference follows from what they&#39;re attracted to rather than their attraction following from an arbitrary preference.

I have a chinese friend whose lived in three continents who i know has dated white, black, asian and latino guys, but claims to have a very strong preference for white guys, i can&#39;t imagine that as being inappropriately descriminatory anymore than articulating any other preference in men.

Personaly, I can&#39;t understand Asian sexual prefences; yeah, I like Asian women... and white women... and black women... and Latina women. Really, I like all women sexually if they&#39;re hot, not just women of a certain ethnicity.

But you don&#39;t like all women...just the women you think are hot. Just because what you consider hot can be found in Asian and white and black and Latina women doesn&#39;t mean that what everyone considers hot can be found among Asian, white, black and Latina women. And even if you can find people you like enough in any different group doesn&#39;t eliminate the possibility of having a specific preference if you had the oprotunity to choose.

Alot of "Asian fetishism" is based on prejudice and stereotypes of East Asian women as quiet and subservient to men.

Maybe i don&#39;t know, but i think its also very possible that they might simply prefer the way some asian people look.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by CompañeroDeLibertad@Mar 25 2006, 07:45 PM

Well shit, I can&#39;t help it that I&#39;m attracted to white people. Nothing against blacks but I just can&#39;t seem to be attracted to them. You&#39;re making it seem as its a crime for a white to be attracted to a white. That or you make it seem like its a bad thing when once again I was just giving an EXAMPLE.

It is a bad thing you fucking twit. Grouping all "blacks" into a mass that you "don&#39;t find attractive" is disgusting.

You should judge people on an individual basis as far as this goes, not make sweeping generalizations based on ignorace.

And TragicClown, all chocolate ice cream taste like chocolate, and all women belong to one of two biologically based parts of humanity (sexes), but not all "black" people are the same. In other words, your analogy sucks.

Well excuse me all to Hell for not conforming to your train of thought. I have NO PROBLEM conversing with black people but I for some internal reason or another just aren&#39;t attracted to them. I&#39;m sorry I dont think like you do but please get over it.