I would advise against it, if you're in the UK. The "workers" part in the SWP is misleading, as their members can afford BMWs. If I were you, I'd join the Socialist Party (Socialist Party
Results 1 to 20 of 35
should i join the swp? i am not sure how much the subscription is, but i think it would be good to join.
and is the socialist worker paper any good?
Vive le Birkenhead
Vive le Revolution
I would advise against it, if you're in the UK. The "workers" part in the SWP is misleading, as their members can afford BMWs. If I were you, I'd join the Socialist Party (Socialist Party
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."- Groucho Marx
Plug for the CWI - Why Not Join?
Ummm... Link?
"[the] most perfect Socialism is possible only on the condition of the most perfect individualism." -
Benjamin Tucker
If its the UK one I would not reccomend them. Of late they seem to have betrayed there trotskyisst routes. Their latest project is a popular frontist, class colabirationist mess; respect. Socialist Workers isnt the worst paper in the world however if you were looking for a more analytical and full update on events in the world from a marxist perspective I would reccomend Socialist Appeal, some of its articles can be viewed on www.marxist.com SAs my organiation and I'd reccomend it. However if it's not your thing then youd be better with the socialist party than the SWP. Even if they have mislead themselves into believeing that they are a mass workers party.
In what relations do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.
-Karl Marx
It is only by strengthening ourselves ideologically, inculcating in ourselves the values and ideals of the struggle and building up the ranks of the revolutionary party that we will make it.
- Ta Power
How dare you sir! The Socialist Party has never claimed to be "the mass workers party", they just want to set one up: there's a difference.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."- Groucho Marx
Plug for the CWI - Why Not Join?
Penguin I wish all spers were like you. I've come acrss people arguing otherwise... While I might be in a different trotskyist sect I can respect the SPs analysis on events as generally correct and I am generally sympatjhetic to them.
In what relations do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.
-Karl Marx
It is only by strengthening ourselves ideologically, inculcating in ourselves the values and ideals of the struggle and building up the ranks of the revolutionary party that we will make it.
- Ta Power
Definetly, comrade.
They're the only far left organisation with any sort of base or influence.
You'll learn a whole lot.
The other comrades are member of little sects whose sole purpose, it seems, is to slag the SWP.
So be it. But if you want to join a Marxist group, join the SWP.
You can read the Worker online every week:
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/
Since, according to their fantasy, the relationships of men, all their doings, their chains and their limitations are products of their consciousness, the Young Hegelians logically put to men the moral postulate of exchanging their present consciousness for human, critical or egoistic consciousness, and thus of removing their limitations. This demand to change consciousness amounts to a demand to interpret reality in another way, i.e. to recognise it by means of another interpretation. The Young-Hegelian ideologists, in spite of their allegedly "world-shattering" statements, are the staunchest conservatives.
Karl Marx
SWP is not a 'mass workrs party' though. Just because it is compartivley bigger, does that make ssp the best party. SWP in an effort to gain members and influence has launched a popular frontist class colabirationist project by aligning itself with respect.
In what relations do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.
-Karl Marx
It is only by strengthening ourselves ideologically, inculcating in ourselves the values and ideals of the struggle and building up the ranks of the revolutionary party that we will make it.
- Ta Power
What's wrong with popular fronts?
I never said they were a 'mass party' - stop inventing things.
Since, according to their fantasy, the relationships of men, all their doings, their chains and their limitations are products of their consciousness, the Young Hegelians logically put to men the moral postulate of exchanging their present consciousness for human, critical or egoistic consciousness, and thus of removing their limitations. This demand to change consciousness amounts to a demand to interpret reality in another way, i.e. to recognise it by means of another interpretation. The Young-Hegelian ideologists, in spite of their allegedly "world-shattering" statements, are the staunchest conservatives.
Karl Marx
It was certainly implied.
Popular fronts are class colabiration. They have been proven failures in europe in the period between ww1 and 2.Why is swp joining with an organiation fronted by someone who openly said that tros were ultraleftists and that respect was a aprty for all classes, and that most of its members were small buissness owners?
In what relations do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.
-Karl Marx
It is only by strengthening ourselves ideologically, inculcating in ourselves the values and ideals of the struggle and building up the ranks of the revolutionary party that we will make it.
- Ta Power
Ive been looking at the communist league, it looks as though it doesnt get bogged down in sectarianism
I came accross the communist league this morning. Nice people, i buy their paper sometimes, its unfortunate that it only deals with events in America due to the small size of their british section.
In what relations do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.
-Karl Marx
It is only by strengthening ourselves ideologically, inculcating in ourselves the values and ideals of the struggle and building up the ranks of the revolutionary party that we will make it.
- Ta Power
Well, comrade, this might surprise you, but Marxists have more to be worried about that what one man said years and years ago.
There is a crisis in working class representation in this country (certainly in England), and Respect is an attempt to address that.
Respect might well have some non-working class members, but it hasn't influenced the parties' programme or orientation, so what's the problem?
Since, according to their fantasy, the relationships of men, all their doings, their chains and their limitations are products of their consciousness, the Young Hegelians logically put to men the moral postulate of exchanging their present consciousness for human, critical or egoistic consciousness, and thus of removing their limitations. This demand to change consciousness amounts to a demand to interpret reality in another way, i.e. to recognise it by means of another interpretation. The Young-Hegelian ideologists, in spite of their allegedly "world-shattering" statements, are the staunchest conservatives.
Karl Marx
I don't think it is a good idea for you to join the SWP! Yes they are one of if not the "biggest" "socialist" party in the UK, but it is the methods they use that i think are wrong. For example, read the socialist worker and it will only mention the word "socialism" a very limited number of times.
Yes there is a lack of working class representation in the UK, that's why we should support the Campaign for a new workers party, which will give a democratic base for putting forward socialism. Respect is not and will not be a mass workers party. It is vital that a new party appeals to ALL sections of the working class, not just one, which respect is cleary doing as it doesn't want to fall out with its rich muslim backers, (for example its portrayal of Oona King with a low tight top on in the election leaflets and the likening of islamaphobia with the holocaust) Yes we should support the oppressed groups of society but on a class basis. Many sections of the working class may well be put off with this campaign.
George Galloway when questioned says "socialism is not on the agenda", also what will happen to the large attendances at respect meetings when galloway finishes his political career??? I think the SWP have made a mistake in jumping on the respect badwagon.
the socialist party are impractical idealists. they might as well say "we will pay old people to use public transport."
Vive le Birkenhead
Vive le Revolution
Marxists might also care what the leadership of a party they are inolved in and play a key part in says and how they act. Galloways has repeatidly said that trotskyism is ultraleftism and that respect is not revolutionay or socialist. He has openly said it is the party for all classes and that most of its members are small buissnes owners.
Respect is funded by beugoirse, and openly colaborates with reactionary organisations such as the british assosation of muslims. It certainly affects their program, they are not paticularly radical and could easily fit in the broad left of the Labour party.
In what relations do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.
-Karl Marx
It is only by strengthening ourselves ideologically, inculcating in ourselves the values and ideals of the struggle and building up the ranks of the revolutionary party that we will make it.
- Ta Power
Now this interests me: how are we "impractical idealists"? Could you perhaps quote our programme for such terms?
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."- Groucho Marx
Plug for the CWI - Why Not Join?
Do you mean us, or one of the organizations in the UK that calls itself "Communist League"?
Miles
Is there a British branch of your organisation? ....more specifically, is there a branch in South Wales?
We're working on one. We have a couple of contacts in York and Leeds, but that's it so far.
Miles
