SEXISM: A thoroughfare or a Cul de Sac?

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SORRY! The Title should read SEXISM: A thoroughfare [font=Geneva]OR[/font] a Cul de Sac?

Hello!

I’ve just joined the Forum! I see that the rules make it clear that ”sexism ” is not allowed. Good.

I was wondering …. is that frowned upon in one direction or both? I mean is it tolerated to give men the blame for things like ”pornography” and ”prostitution”? Is pornography considered degrading to women pornography actresses but not to male pornography actors? Is it assumed that people like Charles Manson and Ted Bundy were evil but that Manson’s women and Eileen Wournos were just unfortunates who were so misused by men that their lives of murder was beyond their will?

[Abood]

Sexism is sexism... for both males and females.
There is no superior gender. Why would women deserve more than men or men deserve more than women?
Plus, there's nothing wrong with pornography as long as it's with consenting adults.

[VermontLeft]

well its obviously more complicated then just one-way or two-way.

i mean, yea sexism is bad no matter whos the victim, but in society today its pretty much always women who are the victims. so its bad to insult all men, true, but its still WORSE to insult all women.

its like how black anti-white racism is bad but not as bad as white racism because it doesnt have the same societal power. i mean women can call men bad names or whatever bu they cant actually hurt them in the way that men can hurt us.

no matter what words we use or whatever we will still make less money be abused more be respected less and have less political power.

when there are just as many women capitalist bourgeois as there are men THEN you can talk about a thoroughfare or whatever, but as long as society is not equal we cant talk about discrimination being two-way.

and about porno, you need to look deeper than just the bullshit about consenting adults. do you really think that most porno actresses are doing it because they want to or because they NEED THE MONEY.

look at what most of porno today is. its guys sitting on women and slapping them and cuming on their faces and choking them and the rest. its never women who are in the dominant position and its usualy abount humiliation and objectivation.

male porno actors are workers and so their being exploited to, but not nearly as much as women are because the actual work that they have to do is so much less degrading.

plus, lik it or not, almost all porno directors and producers and distributors and whatever ARE MEN!! not because men are evil or whatever, but because in this society men tend to be the ones with all the economic power.

and that includes porn just like anything else.

a ot of men are scared of the idea of anti-male sexism and think that their being attacked or whatever, but really their scared of losing their power. women are not even close to equal in this society and that needs to change. if our fighting for our freedoms seems like sexism to you, thats too bad, but were not gonna stop.

feminism isnt about hating men or calling them names, its about fighting for our equality. all sexism is bad, but realzie that not all sexism is a problem RIGHT NOW. we need to address the discrimination that is actually here not whatever we could imainge might hapen or whatever... :angry:

[Abood]

VermontLeft, i totally agree with everything you said.
And...

and about porno, you need to look deeper than just the bullshit about consenting adults. do you really think that most porno actresses are doing it because they want to or because they NEED THE MONEY.

I never said it's always about them wanting it. I know that many people need the money, but they choose to take the route of porno, don't they?! Maybe it's because it pays more... And I know men are dominant even in porn.

[VermontLeft]

Currently (and for most of history), women are the oppressed sex. So, the current fight is for full equality for women

excactly. all this stuff about reverse sexism or whatever is just a smoke-screen for male terror about losing power. when one group is oppressed and another is not, OF COURSE we focus on the oppressed. i mean does anyone here really believe that men are being oppressed by women??

I never said it's always about them wanting it. I know that many people need the money, but they choose to take the route of porno, don't they?!

Yeah but its because they have no choice.

the problem with the consenting adults line is that in capitalism theres no such thing as consent. otherwise why not just say that all workers are "consenting" and so theres no problem?

women "choose" to be abused and humiliated on camera because if they dont they cant make their rent and live in misery. consent is only consent if everyones in an equal position. when the porn guy has all the power and the chick is flat broke, do you really think that shes in a position to "consent" to being face-fucked and beaten on camera?

ive got nothing against people chosing to tape themselves having sex if that gets them off or whatever, but thats not what the porn industry is about. most porn today is about humiliating women in order to appeal to a male demographic that sees its sexual power slipping and needs reassurance that women are still inferior to them.

the reason that "gonzo porn" sells is because alot of men today arent comfortable weith all these empowered women and so need to see women being 'put in their place'.

well THATS SEXISM :angry:

[Shredder]

Yes, you can blame men for prostitution or porn if you like. It is not sexist to point out when you think something is sexist. You just can't, like, y'know, say stuff like men are useless stupid thugs who deserve to be subservient to women. That would be the opposite of a constructive idea.

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*** Wow! I see a lot of contradiction here!

QUOTE by VermontLeft
when there are just as many women capitalist bourgeois as there are men THEN you can talk about a thoroughfare or whatever, but as long as society is not equal we cant talk about discrimination being two-way.

... and about porno ……. do you really think that most porno actresses are doing it because they want to or because they NEED THE MONEY.

... look at what most of porno today is. its guys sitting on women ……. and cuming on their faces……. its never women who are in the dominant position and its usualy abount humiliation and objectivation.

*** Would the proper response to this be: “When there are just as many women who can produce sperm, then you can talk about humiliation and objectivation”?

Furthermore, you are insinuating that men DO want to do pornagraphy. You may think that all any man needs to do is look at a fence post to get an erection and then “screw up a storm” no matter how many people are standing around with floodlights and cameras ……. I can tell you it is not true.

….. and then you say ……

QUOTE by VermontLeft
male porno actors are ….. being exploited to, but not nearly as much as women are because the actual work that they have to do is so much less degrading.

*** Shame on you. If you think displaying your pecker and masterbating yourself to an orgasm for the whole world to see isn’t equally degrading then you have missed the importance of the whole idea of this thread. Should I guess that you think the smile on her face is a fake but his smile is genuine? How many guys do you know who’d pulled down their britches in front of a crowd of people? One out of a few hundred? And the number of women who’d flash a topless peek?

QUOTE by VermontLeft
“ …feminism ….. its about fighting for our equality. all sexism is bad, but …. not all sexism is a problem RIGHT NOW. we need to address the discrimination that is actually here not whatever we could imainge might hapen or whatever...

*** First of all you say "our equality". Who do you think "we" are? Women only? Sorry, but that's a SEXIST view which should not be tolerated in an equal society. Such "We - them" thinking is the reason the whole problem exists in the first place.

All struggles MUST be made together. One cannot elicit respect and understanding unless you do. Is this not common knowledge?

The bottom line of this thread is (according to the replies so far) that SEXISM, for the most part, is considered a Cul de Sac. This cannot be healthy.