The CCP

[Hopes_Guevara]

Hello Chinese comrades,

I'd like to know more about the Chinese Communist Party. Is it right that the Party allows its members to carry on business in the private economic zone? And if so, how many capitalist members are there in the CCP?

[Janus]

The CPC has definitely changed since the days of Mao. Today, joining the CPC is considered a social and economic advancement, which is why many college educated people join. Some of the CPC members probably are businessmen. Even if there aren't, businesses have a major influence on the party which has caused the CPC to become corrupt. This can be seen in the Shanghai clique which has driven China towards privatization and economic reform. The CPC is essentially a capitalist organization which calls itself Marxist-Leninist-Maoist in order to gain legitimacy.

[Hopes_Guevara]

It's seem to be like in Vietnam. I haven't rejected the economic innovation. However, in the Draft political report of The 10th Congress of VCP what will open in the quarter two of this year there's a provision: the members are allowed to carry on private bussiness without scale limit. You know, this has been the controversial topic during the latest years and now it is brought in the Draft political report. There have been many controversies in propaganda for the latest day. Almost of the opinons agree it. Indeed, I felt pissed off. Personally I reject highly this provision. I know the leaders of the CPV learned it from the CPC's policy.

By the way, how many capitalists are there in the Chinese apparatus? I have ever heard that The President of China is a great bourgeois, is it right?

[Ice]

After reading your post on the other forum I thought that Vietnam is going steady but it seems that now, Vietnam is following the same Chinese footsteps. Now, do people living in Vietnam have enough freedom to fight against these policies or is Vietnam just another Stalin’s Russia, where people who share opposite ideologies get killed or suppressed?

[Hopes_Guevara]

Originally posted by Ice@Mar 5 2006, 06:29 AM
After reading your post on the other forum I thought that Vietnam is going steady but it seems that now, Vietnam is following the same Chinese footsteps. Now, do people living in Vietnam have enough freedom to fight against these policies or is Vietnam just another Stalin’s Russia, where people who share opposite ideologies get killed or suppressed?

I think to reform economy has been necessary for developing Vietnam. Even I always support the economic policies which will be considered as "revisionism" by most of the members on this forum. No problem. Because I completely have enough reason to protect it. However, I oppose the reforms intenting to "dilute" the class nature of the Communist Party. People who supporting this reform bring up many reasons to apology that: the members have to be the vanguards in all of country's policies, including economic field, in order to develop the productional forces. However, in my point this is the politic issue, neither economic one nor the forces of production.

Yes, you're somewhat right. A number of the policies of VN are learned from China.

In general, only people who are against the regime frenchizedly are the "targets" of the government. They are not killed or suppresed cruelly but their life cannot be as comfortable as the others, of course.
Generally, I realize today there's not so many people who care about politic issues there's no more peoples understanding Marxism-Leninism. You know, the market economy makes many people entertain illusions about capitalism and so-called "new liberterianism". So, they support this policy of the Party. They mock anyone who bring up the Marxist theory against this policy. They said that that is a old thought and not suitable for today. Because of this very problem I think that VN need to build a genuine staff of the communist members who always firm communist ideal not to steer the country towards revisionism or even capitalism.

Anyway, we have to wait for the 10th Meeting of the CPV.

By the way, which forum have you read my posts?

[Ice]

In general, only people who are against the regime frenchizedly are the "targets" of the government. They are not killed or suppresed cruelly but their life cannot be as comfortable as the others

So, if people are not comfortable with the government’s policies how can they make the government change its policies? In short, do people have the power to monitor the policies of the government?

They mock anyone who bring up the Marxist theory against this policy.

I thought that, the Vietnamese people would never let their revolution to fail as they have fought a long battle to overthrow their imperialists. It is very disappointing to here things like this.

[/QUOTE]By the way, which forum have you read my posts? [QUOTE]

here

[Hopes_Guevara]

Originally posted by Ice@Mar 14 2006, 02:03 PM
So, if people are not comfortable with the government’s policies how can they make the government change its policies? In short, do people have the power to monitor the policies of the government?

Yes, of course. But you ought to define whom "people" are. The minority is not absolutely "people". However, like other countries nowadays, people can just monitor the Government's policies through a representational organ, that is: The National Asembly. And as you know, when the system of representational democracy is not replaced yet by one of directory democracy people still can't exercise their power fully.

I thought that, the Vietnamese people would never let their revolution to fail as they have fought a long battle to overthrow their imperialists. It is very disappointing to here things like this.

You know, people can't understand and are not necessary to understand what socialism is. What people want is the Government have to give them a good and rich life. In Vietnam today, the state existing is that amount of people, including youths, think that the US and the Western are the paradises of freemdom and democracy. They think all of the people there are rich and happy or at least richer and happier than they. And so, they think that capitalism must be better than socialism. However they are not the majority. But anyway I suppose that if the Government is not carefully, that minority will be the majority in the future. What I wrote about pro-capitalists are the thought of the bourgeoises: the corporation owners, bankers... So, it's so easy to understand why they support the policy which allows the members of CPV to be the capitalist owners. To students, they support this policy because they suppose that it's necessary to develop the economy. And they call that "renewed thought".

Yes, Vietnamese people fought against the US imperialism. But it was not only the battle agaisnt imperialism but also against a foreign force to protect the homeland. This national spirit Vietnamese people inherit from our ancestors, before we know what socialism is. So, to confirm socialism CPV and Vietnamese Government have to develop the economy, improve the people's life,... If not every attempts become useless. Fighting for building a system of thought in the war time is always easier than fighting for protecting that system in the pacific time.

[Janus]

By the way, how many capitalists are there in the Chinese apparatus?

Are you looking for figures? Businessmen were allowed into the CCP during the 1990's. More and more people, particularly students are joining the CCP because they see it as a way for political and economic advancement.

I have ever heard that The President of China is a great bourgeois, is it right?

Hu Jintao isn't a self-declared capitalist but I'm sure that he supports it. He has stated that he wants to close the wealth gap between the cities and the rural areas. The top government offficials are capitalists in the sense that they support and advocate it to a degree. Many of them also have a large amount of capital and some probably invest it in businesses through third parties and whatnot.

[Ice]

Thanks comrade, for answering my questions.

[Ice]

Originally posted by Hopes_Guevara@Mar 7 2006, 02:24 PM
Anyway, we have to wait for the 10th Meeting of the CPV.

Any news about the 10th Meeting of the CPV?

[redgrass]

你们的英文对话我只看懂个大概。而且是用这个破翻译工具：
http://translate.google.com/translate_t
Comrades，please forgive my “Chinese mode English”！

As a leftist elements in the Mainland of China，我想说的是，CCP早已wasn't workers party，China 早已wasn't workers state.
CCP was a party of representative bureaucratic groups since 1949.
CCP效仿Soviet Union建立起一个workers state with bureaucracy.
但是CCP仍带有革命战争时期的政治惯性（特别是受到激进的The impact of the Land revolution before 1949），所以在一五计划之后对Stalinism system做了许多改良。
CCP’ China一直是authoritarian state.Chinese workers lack of the necessary freedom politic since 1949.Chinese workers union was manipulation firmly by CCP since 1949.
Bureaucratic groups 不甘心自己手中的特权在下一代就失效。特权无法继承。当中国in the early 1980s出现市场与私有制时，Bureaucratic groups就把手中的特权变成了大量资本。Chinese privatization was begined since 1997(CCP 15th general assembly).
China's first bourgeois from bureaucratic groups of CCP！
"Bureaucratic bourgeoisie" begined in the early 1980s！
Chinese privatization relatively smooth！—— Because Chinese workers lack of the necessary freedom politic since 1949！——CCP control over the workers more authoritarian since 1989！！

“how many capitalist members are there in the CCP?”——This issue is not important！（My friend——China workers website editor say “1/3 of members CCP were capitalists”）
More importantly to the many senior officials , and their children have the alarming number of secret capital！！
Who is largest bourgeois in China?——Bureaucratic bourgeoisie of CCP！！

[Janus]

Who is largest bourgeois in China?——Bureaucratic bourgeoisie of CCP！！

I have to agree with you there. Though most do not actually own companies, they are still quite corrupt and advocate it.

[redgrass]

Originally posted by Janus@Apr 20 2006, 04:28 PM
Though most do not actually own companies, they are still quite corrupt and advocate it.

有些corrupt是公开的，更多corrupt是隐秘的。
公开的corrupt——例如八十年代son of DXP 带头搞的下海（带动了一大批CCP高干下海）实际上就是公开的corrupt.