Thread: Pornography and feminism [article]

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  1. #1
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    published in womyn's vertigo 2006.

    by bina bhattacharya and rhiannon o'donoghue


    Throughout my teen years I, like pretty much every other teenage girl on the planet, was obsessed with my physical appearance. I wanted desparately to be attractive and thin and measure my self-worth based on how much I conformed to pervading conventional standards of beauty. I made a conscious decision when I started university to stop caring too much about my appearance. I was determined to be valued on my true worth: my ideas, my creativity, my worth. And it’s largely worked. I get a whole lot more respect out of people, especially men, now that I don’t shave my armpits or legs and only wear jeans and a tshirt. I had to prove that I was no an object to be taken seriously.

    So it might surprise you as to why I am vehemently opposed to the idea of censoring pornography. Isn’t this the sort of degrading, misogynistic practice that crystallises women as passive and brainless, mere receptacles of male conquest? Yes, but it needn’t be.

    I’m the first to admit that a lot of porn makes me sick: watching a long-fingernailed woman masturbate gives me shivers and watching a man come all over a woman’s face makes me want to throw up my most recent meal. I know plenty of porn stars are abused, drug-dependant and self-loathing. I don’t, however, see abolition as the answer.

    I’ve heard the arguments both ways round, and I think I may just have to go with the anti-porn feminists on this one. I want to point out that this basis doesn’t stem from me being prudish, or anti-sex, pr even from supporting censorship, but rather from an understanding of pornography as complicit with the patriarchal system which oppresses women. For me, the patriarchy is the modes of operating which are all around us, which say that women should be submissive to men, that women should place great importance on their physical looks, that says when we talk of our experiences we are being hysterical, and that we shouldn’t speak at all.

    Patriarchy – what’s the link with porn? A lot of porn if women assuming roles of submission, and not infrequently depicts women in scenes of violence and rape. Women are more than their bodies, and while some may find porn liberating, I think that we have been tricked into thinking that we can achieve liberation through sexualising ourselves for the hetro male population. The sexualisation of women is a historical burden, and one that I don’t think a few pro-women porn films is going to lift. Even though some individual women may find porn liberating, I just can’t support the porn industry because the majority of the images the industry portrays continue to feed stereotypes of women that I, as a feminist, want to challenge.


    Everytime I go to the Toolshed on Oxford St, I ask the congenial staff for some ‘girly’ porn – you know, ‘artistic’ stuff with more ‘natural’ looking women and the semblance of a story line. I get the same response from every staff member: “We had some, but it all sold out. There’s a huge market for it – we get young women, especially queer women, coming in and asking for female-friendly porn all the time. I tell them the only way we’re going to get more is if they start making it themselves.”

    As both a feminist and a filmmaker, I encourage women to reclaim pornography, to make their own and set new standards of creativity within the genre. I’m going to quote one of my heroes here, Nina Hartley [yes, she is a porn star], a proud Marxist and feminist who once said “the most erogenous organ in your body is your brain”. Unlike other forms of filmmaking, pornography is low budget and with the accessibility of digital cameras and the Internet, amateur porn is gaining momentum. Women are precluded from mainstream filmmaking because the means of production are so limited. Pornography is actually a space where women can make a contribution and hopefully set new standards.

    So maybe women should start making more women-friendly poen if this is lacking in whats currently on offer. But while some feminists argue that porn made and directed by women is liberating and affirm women’s sexualities, I am unable to reconcile the difference between body/sexuality affirming porn with that which exploits women through promoting certain body types for a predominantly male audience.

    Presently the vast majority of porn which is consumed, is not by young queer women, but by a male audience which buy into the very stereotypes and presumptions of how women should act and look. I can’t see how this is empowering. I also think that pornography which portrays women being submissive contributes to men’s understanding of women as sexual objects. No more, no less. Women in porn don’t get to present anything other than their bodies: they have no chance of interacting with those that consume them, and certainly aren’t valued for their brains or ideas.

    I really believe that men learn a lot from about women from how they are portrayed in society, through media and the structures women live and work in. as I see it, the fact that there are such high incidences of rape and sexual violence in this country means there is a problem in the way which women are portrayed where men feel it is appropriate to violate women, and I don’t think that porn is neutral in this problem
    .

    Saying abolition is the solution to pornography denies women involved in the process any agency, and is, ironically, paternalistic. The first founding principle of feminism should be self-determination of women. I don’t see how implying that women who enjoy porn are self-loathing or disgusting is respectful to our autonomy.

    While I may be vehemently anti-porn I would never suggest it was censored or abolished. I am also not suggesting that women who enjoy porn are self-loathing or disgusting and on the contrary think that sexuality is entirely natural, and people should explore their bodies in any way they want. I would never dream of telling people what to do, recognising that people are free to make choices based on their beliefs and life experiences. And finally, I do not consider women [or men] who make porn ‘victims’. I do however believe the porn industry normalises the stereotypes of women that are promulgated through the media and society more broadly.

    Women [and queers, people with disabilities, all sorts of minorities really[ have traditionally been oppressed by being denied the right to an active, healthy sex life. We are made to feel guilty for enjoying our bodies. Until the 20th century, it wasn’t even believed that women could orgasm. Sex was merely about procreation which was used to justify our sole purpose as mothers and baby vending machines. Even in soap operas today, women who have sex either end up as teenage mothers or diseased or having to have grisly abortions. I find ti annoying enough that men are always telling me that I’m not allowed to enjoy sex – I don’t need women to do the same.

    I totally agree that everyone should have the right to a healthy and active sex life. I am still unconvinced however that mainstream porn is the answer. I think that a lot of pornograph upholds stereotypes about how women should behave sexually, and it’s neither liberating nor does it necessarily equal a healthy and active sex life.

    The crux of my argument is this: as a young adult, I had to distance myself from my sexuality to be respected for my brain. The onus should not have been on me to change the way I presented myself. Women should get as much respect in a miniskirt as in trousers, nude in a film or fully clothed in parliament. Our liberation should not be in us prohibiting and limiting our enjoyment and engagement with material that is purely sexual, purely constructed for the purpose of getting us off. You can be as much a feminist with shaved legs and a raging libido as without.

    Anti-porn feminism isn’t [or shouldn’t be] about maintaining conservative arguments to force women to dress modestly or behave in a ‘ladylike’ manner. What it does achknowledge is that women at present are portrayed in very certain sexualised ways which inhibits our freedom, and it is this that needs to be challenged. I guess why I am an anti-porn feminist is because I see that pornography plays into an upholds the very stereotypes we need to challenge. I am not suggesting that porn should be abolished, but rather that it should be exposed for what it is: complicit with the patriarchy in constructing images of women as nothing more than sexual objects.
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    Great article. I agree with the premise that sexual images or videos do not always have to be exploitative - if they were, imo it would mean the only thing we'd get aroused by is degradation - and then we'd be screwed

    Id be careful that just cos a women "calls the shots" doesn't mean its not neccessarily sexist films or ideas coming across though - Maggie Thatcher didnt make the UK any more feminist.
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    Is one of the division between feminists a division between "anti-porn" and "pro-porn" feminists? If there is, on what do they disagree?

    Maybe I misunderstood something, but bina bhattacharya (is she the one writting in normal text?) and rhiannon o'donoghue (is she the one writting the italised text?) actually agree on everything and the debate more or less consists only of repetition of their arguments. I think that none of them wants to hear the arguments of other and that they are both talling a completely different things. One talks about what she calls "girly porn" and the other talks about "mainstream porn"

    In the first three sentences (after the introduction) Bhattacharya says nearly everything both sides are talking about.

    So it might surprise you as to why I am vehemently opposed to the idea of censoring pornography. Isn’t this the sort of degrading, misogynistic practice that crystallises women as passive and brainless, mere receptacles of male conquest? Yes, but it needn’t be.
    First sentence explains that she is against censoring porn and O'donoghue later explains that she agrees with her. In second sentence Bhattacharya shows that she understands arguments of the other side. Then she says that she agrees, but adds that not all has to be degrading, in order to explain why it does not need to be censored. Obvious problem with this debate is that o'donoghue completely agrees (she says that porn does not need to be censored and that it is generally degrading, but it does not need to be).

    So then O'donoghue replies that majority of porn is degrading (Bhattacharya already said she agrress). Then Bhattacharya replies that there is a lot of porn that is not degrading. O'Donoghue replies that most of porn is degrading. Bhattacharya says porn should not be censored. O'Donoghue agrees. Then they agree that women "should have the right to a healthy and active sex life." Then Bhattacharya repeats that. O'Donoghue repeats that she agrees. Then O'Donoghue repeats her argument against pornography.

    Is this the whole debate? Were some parts deleated? Where do "anti-porn feminists" and "pro-porn" feminists disagree? I don't undersatnd.
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    There seems to be no practical difference between the two that I can tell.
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    Where do "anti-porn feminists" and "pro-porn" feminists disagree? I don't undersatnd.
    http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/ind...howtopic=45451

    Read all the anti-porn arguments in that thread, that is where pro and anti-porn feminists disagree. Although a lot of the anti-porn arguments in the above are not so much anti-porn feminist as they are anti-porn male liberal - but you'll get the point.
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    Originally posted by Black Dagger@Feb 12 2006, 05:05 AM
    anti-porn feminist as they are anti-porn male liberal
    What's Antii-porn male liberal? And what does it mean in terms of practical policy?
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    What's Antii-porn male liberal?
    An opposition to pornography that is grounded in liberal feminism, guilt and moralism. Ignoring/being ignorant of- radical feminist analysis of pornography and it's utility for women in terms of socially-repressed sexuality and sexual expression. Also, not understanding the utility of pornography for queer peoples in general, as a learning mechanism, something that can provide an insight into ones own sexuality, help you explore your sexuals desires and so forth, with anonymity- without fear of prejudice and so forth. Also there is an undercurrent of sexual conservatism, sex as taboo, wanting to limit sexual expression to orthodox forms - moralism, that makes sex 'bad' and wanting to watch or participate (i.e. porn 'stars&#39 an act of self-degradation.

    Basically, a knee-jerk rejection of pornography, that is superficial, hetero-normative, and moralistic.

    and what does it mean in terms of practical policy?
    I don't understand your question.
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    Originally posted by Black Dagger@Feb 12 2006, 06:05 AM
    What's Antii-porn male liberal?
    An opposition to pornography that is grounded in liberal feminism, guilt and moralism. Ignoring/being ignorant of- radical feminist analysis of pornography and it's utility for women in terms of socially-repressed sexuality and sexual expression. Also, not understanding the utility of pornography for queer peoples in general, as a learning mechanism, something that can provide an insight into ones own sexuality, help you explore your sexuals desires and so forth, with anonymity- without fear of prejudice and so forth. Also there is an undercurrent of sexual conservatism, sex as taboo, wanting to limit sexual expression to orthodox forms - moralism, that makes sex 'bad' and wanting to watch or participate (i.e. porn 'stars&#39 an act of self-degradation.

    Basically, a knee-jerk rejection of pornography, that is superficial, hetero-normative, and moralistic.

    and what does it mean in terms of practical policy?
    I don't understand your question.
    Forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t two female feminist debating? So how can their views be characterised as ‘male’.
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    Did you even bother reading my post before you started your pontificating?

    http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/ind...howtopic=45451

    Read all the anti-porn arguments in that thread, that is where pro and anti-porn feminists disagree. Although a lot of the anti-porn arguments in the above are not so much anti-porn feminist as they are anti-porn male liberal - but you'll get the point.
    Someone asked about what anti-porn feminist arguments were, i linked to a thread from this board which present lots of anti-porn feminist arguments. The authors of which were predominantly male.
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    My apologies,I forgot you weren’t talking about this piece but rather another.

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