Wow that sounds like a really successful event. I hope that the rest of the world follows the socialist trend that's sweeping through Latin America, although it appears unlikely since Canada just lurched in the opposite direction...
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...&articleId=1847
He is correct, capitalism is a threat to the survival of the planet.
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all-the apathy of humanbeings.
-Helen Keller
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on a tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
-Desmond Tutu
A fellow ain't got a soul of his own, just a little peice of a big soul, the one big soul that belongs to everybody
-John Steinbeck from "The Grapes of Wrath"
Wow that sounds like a really successful event. I hope that the rest of the world follows the socialist trend that's sweeping through Latin America, although it appears unlikely since Canada just lurched in the opposite direction...
one, love, one, music, one, people, one, movement, one, heart, one, spark.
'One' by Immortal Technique
The World is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing
Albert Einstein
Bush is a 'political imbecile' and a tyrant who puts Hitler to shame.
extracts from a press release by the North Korean Foreign Ministry
Let's save the world, one by one. We'll make them believe, conform if they must. Don't question the thought, it's always been told. We'll make them believe, let's save the world.
'Save the World' by RUFiO
"End of the world" silliness.
What you'd expect from a guy who used to appear on Venezuelan dummyvision with a plastic "Baby Jesus" doll...which he would kiss repeatedly.
Where anyone got the idea that a really effective appeal to people would be "establish socialism or the world will end" is utterly beyond me.
It reeks of "Repent! For the Kingdom of God is at hand!"
Listen to the worm of doubt for it speaks truth.
The Redstar2000 Papers
Also see this NEW SITE:@nti-dialectics
Maybe the end of the world is going a little far but capitalism is turning the world into a cesspool. Outright greed for example like Monsantos seeds that do not refertilize are a great danger to the enviorment and the world. A world that is only for proffit is not going to last forever at least as he world we know it. With the United States and Israel threatening Iran with nuclear weapons maybe in their lust for oil they will actually use them. What the long term effects on humanity and the enviorment of repeated nuclear strikes would be I do not know but it will not be pleasant. Chavez might not be that far off.
As for the religious part, atheists are as annoying as bible thumpers in both cases you wish they would both just shut the fuck up. Gee Chavez believes in God that just makes me disrespect himChavez sounds more like he is pissed off than trying to convey some real or more likely imagined relgious message.
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all-the apathy of humanbeings.
-Helen Keller
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on a tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
-Desmond Tutu
A fellow ain't got a soul of his own, just a little peice of a big soul, the one big soul that belongs to everybody
-John Steinbeck from "The Grapes of Wrath"
I like this part:
(Chavez)
I hope it comes true this century.
As for the religious part, I honestly don't care. Some people have a very romantic view of revolution, but in reality we need all the help we can get. It seems extremely foolish not to support him because of this.
It's easy to see
Evil as entity
Not as condition
Inside you and me
-Eugene Hutz
Can we stop being so infatious with Chavez? Sheesh, seriously, he is a burgeoisie reformist...not some great "proletarian revolutionary".
At least it is one step foward, or else what? one step to communism? Will it appease/suit/fit the people in a reaosnably timely manner? Has they recognise the evil of it? We do, yes! But how about those who are poor but want to play the system's game and be a millionaire? There is a big shit load of work for us to do, and Chavez is doing the propaganda and some concrete works right now.... what's his wrong? Why can't he be recognised for his efforts?
DOWN WITH JAPANESE IMPERIALISM!
Link in RevLeft.
The Left needs to spank out a number of armchair theorists and kids who cloak themselves with Marxism as excuse for their problems. Exclusion is needed when the cause is hampered. We are supposed to be the examples and persuaders. Assume responsibility, fuckwit!
Full Text: China's Peaceful Development Road
(Official White Paper)
Link.
Chavez is a very large voice and his view alligns with many of ours. Is it so wrong to want to support him regardless if he believes in god or what not. I think chavez can easily be seen as a glimmer of light in our struggle. Let him do what he does and support him.
Supporting him helps our cause.
If you are so much of a revolutionary you know that chavez is not evil and we should support him for the mutual support we will get back.
If you turn your back on him who are you but one? We need a support network and we need to quit whining and actually attempt to make change.
Gee, sorry he is no Lenin, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot. Not everybody in the world basis thier life on the works of a philospher who has been dead for over 100 years(middle and working class are much easier to type than burgeosie and prolitarian, besides it 2006 now). Nobody in this world is flawless(or has ever been including Marx), Chavez is moving in the right direction as previous members have said he should be supported. The nitpicking and incessant whining gets pretty annoying. Would you prefer the usual right wing brutal dictator that South American countries usually have stuffed up thier asses by the USA?
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all-the apathy of humanbeings.
-Helen Keller
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on a tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
-Desmond Tutu
A fellow ain't got a soul of his own, just a little peice of a big soul, the one big soul that belongs to everybody
-John Steinbeck from "The Grapes of Wrath"
Ok then, you might aswell go kiss Bush's ass then!!
Cus if you dont at least support Chavez who else you gona support!
I dont see any other leader engaging a transition to socialism?? do you?
Or better pf why dont you become a "great proletarian revolutionary"
That's the heart of the matter!
No one here has any problem of choosing between U.S. imperialism and the Chavez government. Everyone hopes that Chavez will win and the U.S. imperialists lose.
But does that mean that Chavez is "helping us"?
That his reforms of Venezuelan capitalism will somehow "build support" for communism in North America or Europe?
How could that possibly be?
How does being known as a member of the "Chavez Fan Club" gain a sympathetic hearing for communist ideas?
I daresay that Chavez enjoys enormous popularity in Venezuela and probably throughout Latin America. Compared to the rogues they've suffered, Chavez really looks like "The Liberator".
But we should know better!
Shouldn't we?
Don't we understand that bourgeois "left" reformists exist to reform capitalism? That their "socialist" rhetoric is rhetoric?
Are there people here so desperate for "someone to believe in" that they'll just pick out anybody who knows how to spell the word "socialism"?
Good grief!
Listen to the worm of doubt for it speaks truth.
The Redstar2000 Papers
Also see this NEW SITE:@nti-dialectics
fair enough? but redstar who would you support to push the communist manifesto to North America? By the time that person comes around you be aged and probably burried in a cemetry!Originally posted by redstar2000@Feb 1 2006, 08:09 PM
That's the heart of the matter!
No one here has any problem of choosing between U.S. imperialism and the Chavez government. Everyone hopes that Chavez will win and the U.S. imperialists lose.
But does that mean that Chavez is "helping us"?
That his reforms of Venezuelan capitalism will somehow "build support" for communism in North America or Europe?
How could that possibly be?
How does being known as a member of the "Chavez Fan Club" gain a sympathetic hearing for communist ideas?
I daresay that Chavez enjoys enormous popularity in Venezuela and probably throughout Latin America. Compared to the rogues they've suffered, Chavez really looks like "The Liberator".
But we should know better!
Shouldn't we?
Don't we understand that bourgeois "left" reformists exist to reform capitalism? That their "socialist" rhetoric is rhetoric?
Are there people here so desperate for "someone to believe in" that they'll just pick out anybody who knows how to spell the word "socialism"?
Good grief!
Not been nasty but its true, and i dont see the people, the proletariats of the US revolt for communism in the near future.
I do not think that it is Chavez that people like; it’s more that the people of Venezuela are pushing Chavez further in his reforms.
Also the rejection of neo-liberalism, even if it’s just towards a kind of social democracy, that has the name of socialism might help revitalise leftist ideas around the world. People might even begin to associate socialism with things that are good, like workers having power in their workplace and democracy, rather than Stalin, Lenin, moa & the king of N.Korea.
People often suggest changing the names of socialism & communism, how about just changing people perception of them?
At the moment we need all the credibility we can get. Just because Venezuela won’t become Socialist in a revolutionary sense does not mean the left cannot exploit the gains that might arise in Venezuela. If things do not go our way, well, things cannot get much worse.
Communists i think need to show support, and try to help the Venezuelan working class demand more democracy and equality.
I agree completely. But who can fill that "position" in America? Who can American socialists look up to in America?
There should be a law, I thought. If you support a war, if you think it’s worth the price, that’s fine, but you have to put your own precious fluids on the line. You have to head for the front and hook up with an infantry unit and help spill the blood. And you have to bring along your wife, or your kids, or your lover. – Tim O' Brien
uuuuuhhh.......no. hes not a reformist because he doesnt make changes within the capitalist system. he is changing the structure of the venezuelan government, making him a revolutionary in my book. Revolution does not need arms to be a revolution. And yes of course, hes not a proletarian revolutionary, hes never claimed himself as marxist or communist, and his acts have never reflected that. but look farther than the bourgeois reformist crap. Just because he doesnt have along beard and a typical military outfit doesnt mean that he isnt a revolutionary.
Kasama Project- We Are the Ones
South Asia Revolution - Information Project
Kasama Threads
"Settle your quarrels, come together, understand the reality of our situation, understand that fascism is already here, that people are dying who could be saved, that generations more will live poor butchered half-lives if you fail to act. Do what must be done, discover your humanity and your love in revolution." - George Jackson
In a world dominated by the right it is nice to see opposition coming from the left. Chavez keeps moving in the correct direction. He may not be the perfect Communist in fact he is not a Communist but some of us find the idea of being told what to do and think by a small band of anal retentive intellectuals repulsive.
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all-the apathy of humanbeings.
-Helen Keller
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on a tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
-Desmond Tutu
A fellow ain't got a soul of his own, just a little peice of a big soul, the one big soul that belongs to everybody
-John Steinbeck from "The Grapes of Wrath"
Chavez has never said he wanted to build communism, he wants to build socialism
Listen bub, everyone here already knows that I plan to mummify RS and place him on display in a mausoleum.
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein
We have to do it ourselves of course.
In fact, the whole idea of a "great leader" fundamentally contradicts the communist project -- that all political and economic power must be in the hands of ordinary people.
Neither do I.
But how do we expect people to even begin to grasp communist ideas ever if all we do is just hype the radical bourgeois "flavor of the month"?
I know there's a tendency to regard politics as a kind of "continuum"...you know, "moderate" socialist -> "radical" socialist -> communist -> anarchist.
The thing about communism and anarchism is that they represent a radical rupture with all the traditional forms of politics characteristic of class societies.
When you start talking about the abolition of wage-labor, the abolition of classes, the abolition of the state, etc., you're talking about stuff that has never been done.
You're "outside" the realm of all traditional forms of politics.
It really is a "new world"...not just the "old world" with a fresh coat of red paint.
Now it's true that there are lots of people who would be quite happy with just the "red paint"...especially in North America where the "paint" has all turned gray and is peeling off in chunks.
We call that reformism and most lefties in these parts are exponents of one or another kind of reformism.
Sad.
But if we consider ourselves to be (or want to become) revolutionaries, then it logically follows that we must criticize reformism in the harshest possible terms.
Even if that upsets people.
Which it does.
One of the ways you can always recognize reformism is that there's always some guy "in the front of the room" and "everyone agrees" that the sun shines out of his ass.
In a genuine revolutionary movement, there's a whole parade of people that "you never heard of"...a constant "coming and going" of "leaders" who are not even regarded as particularly "important".
People are far more concerned with real change than with personalities.
Indeed, the very idea of a "great leader" provokes scornful laughter.
As it should!
Yes, that's probably happening.
But we should recognize the limits of such a process. To the extent that ordinary Venezuelans act directly in their own class interests, they may compel the Chavez government to deepen and extend social democratic reforms.
Just as in the U.S. in the 1930s, for example, when industrial workers organized first and only then did the Roosevelt administration decide to "make it legal".
From North America, I don't think we have any reliable way of telling how extensive popular pressure on Chavez is. In fact, it might be difficult to measure even if we were in Venezuela.
But I think we should be clear that there's no evidence at this point that the masses there "want" a revolution or are even conscious of what that would entail.
Having read neither Marx nor Bakunin, they are still in the process of learning how to read.
Disputable.
It's a question that's often come up: what's the effect on people who "get their hopes up" about proposed reforms when the reforms either don't materialize or don't, in fact, turn out to make that much difference?
In Latin America, reforms will make a difference in very basic and fundamental ways.
But how about North Americans or Europeans who "emotionally identify" with Venezuela?
What happens when they discover that things are really just the same?
In the last century, the Leninists claimed that this would "radicalize" people. That when people "learned" that reforms were "inadequate", they'd "push on" to a "revolutionary perspective".
In my opinion, that's been falsified.
What I observe as a consequence of reformist struggles is that people become demoralized and ultimately cynical about any possibility of changing the world in significant ways.
If we want communist (not just vaguely "leftist") ideas to be "revitalized", then I think we have to first make people familiar with what those ideas would mean...and realize ourselves that it will take a very long time to do that.
There's no "quick fix".
A truism. But we won't get any by "hitching our wagon" to popular reformists. The American Communist Party tried that with Roosevelt...and it did them no damn good at all. They thought they were going to "use" the reformists; and instead, the reformists used them and then threw them to the McCarthy-ite wolves.
No one. We need to break a habit that may be 15,000 years old! In all of the history of class society, people have been "looking up" for someone to "lead them out of bondage".
Ain't no such animal.
We do it ourselves or it won't ever get done.
Umm...yes, it almost always does.
Sorry about that.
And some, like yourself, resent being told that you should actually think about stuff very upsetting.
Can't be helped.
If you imagine left politics is like a "reality" dummyvision show and you just want to be left alone to cheer for your favorite contestant, fine.
On this board, it's actually expected of you to learn how to think coherently and rationally about political realities.
If that strikes you as "anal retentive", too bad.
Listen to the worm of doubt for it speaks truth.
The Redstar2000 Papers
Also see this NEW SITE:@nti-dialectics
No I don't think at all oh arrogant one
The intelectual snobbery on this board is disturbing though. Some of us have not had the opportunity to get the education of others. Some of were actually born into poverty and are still thier. Are you a member of the working class? The working class should rule the working class not some over educated middle class control freaks who think they know whats best for us(that was a critisism of Communism again and a personal barb if you are of the middle class, not all of us on this board are Communists(thank GOD)as much as some may wish).
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all-the apathy of humanbeings.
-Helen Keller
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on a tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.
-Desmond Tutu
A fellow ain't got a soul of his own, just a little peice of a big soul, the one big soul that belongs to everybody
-John Steinbeck from "The Grapes of Wrath"
