the fear of "femininity" among men

[rioters bloc]

written by a friend of mine for a zine

It’s amazing the way the nomenclature for sexual acts and attitudes reveals so much about cultural perceptions and prejudices. Slurs used against queer men display an obsession with male-to-male penetrative sex within our culture. Even a cursory view of Wikipedia’s list of sexual slurs shows and overwhelming abundance of terms to articulate male queerness purely in terms of whether or not anal sex occurs: “anal astronaut”, “butt bandit”, “chocolate dipper”, “fudge packer” – hey, that’s almost the beginning of an anal sex alphabet. This fixation has been complemented by my experience of homophobia. Every time I have asked a homophobic male what issue they could possibly have with what two consenting males do in the privacy of their own bedroom, I always get the same simplistic response: “Yeah, but poofs take it up the arse. That’s gross.” One contestant in a reality TV show even stated on air that he would never get examined for prostate cancer because he’s afraid he “might like a finger up the arse a bit too much”. I question why our society invests so much into masculinity given how obviously fragile it is. It seems as though macho men are so repressed that a clinical examination by a man or womyn in latex gloves for health reasons could possibly be construed as a sexual act!

Notwithstanding the fact that not all queer men practise anal sex and that there is in fact more to being a queer man than having anal sex – stuff like love – this standard disgusted response is widely achknowledged as the most deviant and offensive aspect of homosexuality. For it’s not just the bogans and derelicts of trashy reality TV who talk this way Sigmund Freud believed that gay men lacked the more sophisticated psychosexual development of their straight counterparts whereby the centre of arousal shifted from the anus to the penis. Gay men remained primitively anal-centric, he argued. Likewise, the politically powerful religious right in the USA frequently rail against ‘sodomy’, which literally refers to any sex which does not lead to procreation [including oral sex and tribadism but more commonly refers to anal sex]. Analphobia is even enshrined in the legislation of many of the more conservative US Southern states where the practise of sodomy is illegal and frequently used to justify the incarceration of queer men.

Yet out of these slang terms, in the same way a word to describe an unwilling male is near impossible to find, I could not find a single term to deride heterosexual men who have anal sex with womyn. As far as I know, the mechanics of anal sex are pretty similar, whether its between two men or between a man and a womyn. As much booty is banditted, as much dipped in chocolate, as much fudge is packed – yet the acceptability of the act is so widely varied according to the gendered composition of partnership.

What confuses me most, not only as a queer but also as a feminist womyn, is how in most hetero pornography, anal sex is celebrated and in fact a necessary element to any standard sex scene. so when a womyn gets it up the arse, its normal. When a man does, it’s a violation. The penny drops; it suddenly hits me that homophobia is a male fear of being put in a feminised position. The louts who hoot and honk and grope at womyn on street corners or crowded bars are dead terrified of being on the receiving end of their harassment. From a homophobic straight male perspective, a queer man is the only sort of person who could possibly force them into a ‘passive’, ‘receiving’, ‘feminine’ role. Many womyn on the other hand, exist in a permanent state of threat and objectification.

Nowhere is the link between homophobia and misogyny more obvious than in the markedly different treatment of sexual assault in the media, both fictional and non-fictional. During the fight for equal age of consent for homosexual men, conservatives rallied against the laws, arguing that lowering the age of consent would open the floodgates for pedophilia and – that naughty word again – sodomy. Where were similar cries of protestation to protect young womyn? From the news and from popular fictional media, it would appear that most pedophilia is committed by men against young boys, two of the most ‘immoral’ things tied together. In reality, young girls are 2-3 times more likely to be molested by an adult man than their male counterparts, but this is nowhere near as widely publicised.

Former UTS Chancellor and High Court Judge Sir Gerard Brennan even went so far as to argue the legal validity of ‘homosexual advance defence. This basically says that it’s okay for a straight man to kill a queer man making an advance on him; such violence is a logical result of the ensuing chaotic psychological state of the ‘victim’. Where is the heterosexual advance case? Where does it say that it’s okay for a woman to kill a man who is uninvitingly hitting on her? I draw attention to the fact that according to Margaret Atwood, in man Western countries, womyn who kill their husbands serve approximately twenty years in jail on average, compared to men who kill their wives and get four.

The idea that we must curtail homosexuality in order to protect our young boys is ludicrous. Most men who sexually assault other men identify as being heterosexual. This fact helps to highlight that sexual assault is about violence, anger, power and control over another person, not lust or sexual attraction. All the evidence illustrates that the greatest threat to the safety of both men and womyn are men who identify as straight. As soon as issues of gender define an act of sexual assault rather than the much more complicated issue of consent, various institutions have ammunition to use against womyn and queers. This is why both groups must work to continually question and apply pressure to media prone to sensationalisation.

So why should all queer men be feminists? Because the source of oppression is the same. Queer men and womyn are both stigmatised as deviations of the enshrined ideal of traditional masculinity. When all that is non-macho is denigrated, ridiculed, and trivialised professionally, queers and womyn lose social and cultural capital. Womyn and queers have been oppressed for what they do in their bedrooms, leading to a hindrance of what they do publicly and politically. The guilt and shame queers and womyn are made to feel for having sexual pleasure forces us into hesitation when making a public stand and works to convince others that our ideas are invalid. We shouldn’t have to apologise for who we fuck, how we fuck, and why we fuck. We certainly should not have to accept that such things will dictate our working conditions, our right to visit our dying partner in hospital, our autonomy over our bodies, and how seriously our ideas, history, and struggle are viewed by the rest of the world. The personal is the political.

[Monty Cantsin]

What someone does in there own bedrooms fine by me as long as it doesn’t involve children. So lowering to consenting ago from 18 to 16 for homosexual men a good thing.

The idea that straight men find sex between men degusting because anal sex is a “feminie” positions is not totally correct. I fancy some men think of it that way; the ancient Greeks thought anal sex between men was ok, the penetrated was considered to be playing to female role. But at the same time its straight men we’re talking about their not queer so the idea of being penetrated in anal sex isn’t pleasing to them - it’s not a component of their sexuality. I wouldn’t expect homosexuals to be fully comfortable with the mechanics of heterosexual sex but they don’t have to be their not the ones inclined such.

[Manack]

Originally posted by rioters bloc@Dec 30 2005, 01:26 AM
So why should all queer men be feminists? Because the source of oppression is the same. Queer men and womyn are both stigmatised as deviations of the enshrined ideal of traditional masculinity. When all that is non-macho is denigrated, ridiculed, and trivialised professionally, queers and womyn lose social and cultural capital.

I am curious about whether your point can be expanded beyond sexuality and gender relations.

If I understand correctly, you suggest that queer men and womyn are both oppressed by denigration with the purpose of reducing their social and cultural capital.

If we expand the worldview and say also apply this to racism? Those of a particular race could be argued to be slandered for effectively the same reasons. In this case while there is no, "fear of femininity" as a driver the method and its effect could be argued to be strikingly similar.

If so would it to be right to suggest that "fear of femininity" isn't really the root cause of oppression against homosexuals and womyn? Instead, what is at play is a fear of a reduction of power and control by a oppressing group with sexuality or gender just being an easy excuse.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by Monty Cantsin@Dec 30 2005, 01:24 PM
What someone does in there own bedrooms fine by me as long as it doesn’t involve children. So lowering to consenting ago from 18 to 16 for homosexual men a good thing.

The idea that straight men find sex between men degusting because anal sex is a “feminie” positions is not totally correct. I fancy some men think of it that way; the ancient Greeks thought anal sex between men was ok, the penetrated was considered to be playing to female role. But at the same time its straight men we’re talking about their not queer so the idea of being penetrated in anal sex isn’t pleasing to them - it’s not a component of their sexuality. I wouldn’t expect homosexuals to be fully comfortable with the mechanics of heterosexual sex but they don’t have to be their not the ones inclined such.

the point the article is making is that the mechanics of anal sex whether it's with a womyn or a man is exactly the same - it's not comparing vaginal sex with anal sex. i know straight men who don't like anal sex with womyn. however, i'm talking about men who enjoy anal sex with womyn, who are blatantly homophobic, and who find the act of anal sex disgusting when two men do it, as opposed to the relationship between the men. which is why she started off by giving examples of derogatory terms for queer men which centred around the fact that they had anal sex, when not a single slur was found for heterosexual men who engage in the same practice but with womyn.

in some cultures/countries around the world, men who are the 'active' ones in sex with another man are not considered gay themselves, but the one on the receiving end or the 'passive' one is, and they 'enjoy' a lower status because of it. this is because they're seen as being the '*****', the 'woman', and that's linked with homosexuality. so in such cases, being gay is automatically linked with being effeminate.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by Manack@Dec 30 2005, 01:29 PM
I am curious about whether your point can be expanded beyond sexuality and gender relations.

If I understand correctly, she suggests that queer men and womyn are both oppressed by denigration with the purpose of reducing their social and cultural capital.

If we expand the worldview and say also apply this to racism? Those of a particular race could be argued to be slandered for effectively the same reasons. In this case while there is no, "fear of femininity" as a driver the method and its effect could be argued to be strikingly similar.

If so would it to be right to suggest that "fear of femininity" isn't really the root cause of oppression against homosexuals and womyn? Instead, what is at play is a fear of a reduction of power and control by a oppressing group with sexuality or gender just being an easy excuse.

i agree that the fear of femininity isn't the sole source of oppression for womyn and queers, and that there are a myriad of such sources, many of which can be applied to racism as well. i suppose she centred on the fear of femininity because it was something which could link misogyny and homophobia, which was the intent of this particular article [she originally wrote it because there is unfortunately a large number of men in the queer collective who think that patriarchy isn't an issue, and that womyn aren't oppressed.]

[ReD_ReBeL]

or maybe men don't want to have a cock up there ass has nothing to do with femininity but to do with there sexuality? It would even be strange to have a woman fuck you up the ass with a strap-on because that act is like recreating a homosexual act, which many straight men will find uncomfortable because it is resembling a dick up your ass. Whereas if you are straight and have anal with a woman its completely normal i think because if you are straight u are attracted to females and that ass is on a female whereass gay anal sex is on a man which straight men dont find attractive.

[Faceless]

That is a very interesting idea.
Just an idea, but perhaps there is a latent insecurity within men about their sexuality, with little to do with gender. Maybe men have a certain amount of sexual attraction to men, and to appear straighter attack homosexuals? Just an idea, not that im admitting up to any latent homosexuality, im much to insecure

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Originally posted by ReD_ReBeL@Dec 30 2005, 01:03 PM
or maybe men don't want to have a cock up there ass has nothing to do with femininity but to do with there sexuality? It would even be strange to have a woman fuck you up the ass with a strap-on because that act is like recreating a homosexual act, which many straight men will find uncomfortable because it is resembling a dick up your ass. Whereas if you are straight and have anal with a woman its completely normal i think because if you are straight u are attracted to females and that ass is on a female whereass gay anal sex is on a man which straight men dont find attractive.

Why the fuck can't you grasp this? It's about homophobes, why they feel the need to criticize what other people do in private, when they often do the exact same thing.

Great article, it really shows how stupid and hypocritical homophobic culture is.

[Jazzy]

whenever a man I'm with asks to do anal on me, I get rid of him....which could be a bit discriminatory on my part but I have to question their sexuality. Like recently I was dating a man and all he ever asked for was anal, now I'm not a srewd by any means but that is the one thing I do not do at all.....told him that over and over again and he kept on trying to pressure me, so I told him that he obviously had some homosexual fantasies even in the sub-concious so he needed to go get that out of his system......I got rid of him. I truly did think that he was gay, he didnt act femme or anything but that whole pressure thing led me to that conclusion. But anyways, to the article....I honestly believe that men who have that urge to go around "gay bashing" do have insecurities within their own sexuality....I am a straight woman and have been hit on by many women and I didn't freak out and go off on them....just told them I was staright and that I appreciated the compliment and that was that......men on the other hand would have started a fight or something. That is not saying that just because a guy "doesn't want a cock up his ass" makes hime gay.....it's about the guys that go out of there way to be discriminatory towards gay men having insecurities...hell I'm a straight woman and I don't want no cock up my ass but that doesn't mean I hate on the gay communiyt....

[KC]

whenever a man I'm with asks to do anal on me, I get rid of him....which could be a bit discriminatory on my part but I have to question their sexuality. Like recently I was dating a man and all he ever asked for was anal, now I'm not a srewd by any means but that is the one thing I do not do at all.....told him that over and over again and he kept on trying to pressure me, so I told him that he obviously had some homosexual fantasies even in the sub-concious so he needed to go get that out of his system......I got rid of him. I truly did think that he was gay, he didnt act femme or anything but that whole pressure thing led me to that conclusion. But anyways, to the article....I honestly believe that men who have that urge to go around "gay bashing" do have insecurities within their own sexuality....I am a straight woman and have been hit on by many women and I didn't freak out and go off on them....just told them I was staright and that I appreciated the compliment and that was that......men on the other hand would have started a fight or something. That is not saying that just because a guy "doesn't want a cock up his ass" makes hime gay.....it's about the guys that go out of there way to be discriminatory towards gay men having insecurities...hell I'm a straight woman and I don't want no cock up my ass but that doesn't mean I hate on the gay communiyt....

Wanting or enjoying anal sex doesn't make you gay. Anal sex isn't connected to homosexuality. Yes homosexuals have anal sex, but that doesn't make people that have anal sex homosexual.

Here's an interesting questions:

Are guys that enjoy anal play (i.e. things inside of their ass) always gay?

I wouldn't say so.

[DisIllusion]

Originally posted by Jazzy@Dec 31 2005, 07:28 AM
whenever a man I'm with asks to do anal on me, I get rid of him....which could be a bit discriminatory on my part but I have to question their sexuality. Like recently I was dating a man and all he ever asked for was anal, now I'm not a srewd by any means but that is the one thing I do not do at all.....told him that over and over again and he kept on trying to pressure me, so I told him that he obviously had some homosexual fantasies even in the sub-concious so he needed to go get that out of his system......I got rid of him. I truly did think that he was gay, he didnt act femme or anything but that whole pressure thing led me to that conclusion. But anyways, to the article....I honestly believe that men who have that urge to go around "gay bashing" do have insecurities within their own sexuality....I am a straight woman and have been hit on by many women and I didn't freak out and go off on them....just told them I was staright and that I appreciated the compliment and that was that......men on the other hand would have started a fight or something. That is not saying that just because a guy "doesn't want a cock up his ass" makes hime gay.....it's about the guys that go out of there way to be discriminatory towards gay men having insecurities...hell I'm a straight woman and I don't want no cock up my ass but that doesn't mean I hate on the gay communiyt....

Yeah, especially in high school, where every second word out of a jock's mouth is "FAG" or "QUEER". Even when they're talking to each other, they play this game as if to keep each other on their toes. Hell, there's even a game called "Smear the Queer", which is basically a (mostly) harmless game where you beat up whoever is holding the ball. Still, the mentality behind it isn't so reassuring.

[Ol' Dirty]

Personally, I believe that what people do in their spare time is up to them. To say that any aspect of sex (Heterosexual or Homosexual) is disguisting, evil, or bad is pure and simple ignorance. The human body is beautiful! If you are a man, and you choose to have sex with other men, just make sure you wear a condom! I don't mind. Just don't do anything in front of me.

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by Eoin Dubh+Jan 1 2006, 06:39 AM--> (Eoin Dubh @ Jan 1 2006, 06:39 AM)

Dec 31 2005

@ 03:28 PM
....I am a straight woman and have been hit on by many women and I didn't freak out and go off on them....just told them I was staright and that I appreciated the compliment and that was that......men on the other hand would have started a fight or something.

I have yet to "start a fight or something".
They are here, they are queer--so what? I am over it and so are a lot of men.
[/b]

i think most men are.

[redstar2000]

I don't think the "fear of femininity" among men has that much to do with particular sexual practices at all.

In a patriarchal society (or one with strong patriarchal residues), a man who permits himself to be "feminized" in any way is "consenting" to a major loss of status.

Since this status has almost entirely lost its material basis in modern society, many men are insecure about their assumed "superiority" to women.

Aggressive homophobia is one way that many men deal with this perceived thread to their status. Aggressive misogyny is another. Fundamentalist religions have the "virtue" of combining both tactics...perhaps explaining their appeal to "traditional" men.

From time to time, the whine is heard that present day society is being "feminized"...referring, of course, to the fact that we are steadily drifting away from patriarchy as a "world outlook".

Remember that capitalism, down in its "guts", doesn't care about gender, race, religion, nationality, culture, etc. The fundamental aim is always increasing profits. This means that even when capitalist ideologues attempt to strengthen "traditional values", they subvert their own project.

If someone can make more money by promoting a woman or hiring a Muslim or publishing some gay porn or whatever, then they'll do it!

And "traditional values" takes another hit.

This makes all kinds of people very uncomfortable...and they react in sometimes very bizarre ways.

But it doesn't make any difference from a historical standpoint...all of the "traditional values" -- including "manliness" -- are on a one way trip to the dumpster of history.

And future generations will probably wonder what took us so long?

[Ol' Dirty]

Wait, what's wrong with anal sex? I don't mean to offend anybody, but why is it so bad? As I said before, just wear a condom. And also, many men find anal sex with a woman better than regular, vaginal sex. Just because a man wants to have anal sex does not mean he is gay. It's not that strange a fantasy.

[JC1]

Remember that capitalism, down in its "guts", doesn't care about gender, race, religion, nationality, culture, etc. The fundamental aim is always increasing profits. This means that even when capitalist ideologues attempt to strengthen "traditional values", they subvert their own project.

A capitalist ideaologue who support's "Traditional value's" is not nessecarily subverting the capitalist project, Indeed, he may be strengthing section's of capital that profit from traditional value's.

For example, when women are disenfranchizied, they are much easier to exploit.

Capitalism is in a stage where it is inncapable of progressive change.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by JC1
Capitalism is in a stage where it is incapable of progressive change.

You mean Sony is not going to release Playstation 3 this year???

The way we know that capitalism is "incapable of progressive change" is when it has ceased to be capable of technological development...when capitalists themselves admit that they've "reached the end of the line".

There have been a few things that "point in that direction"...much of the most "modern" technology actually consists of "refinements" to technology that is decades old.

New "breakthrough" technology seems to be "slowing down".

And there are some "ideological" reflections of this possibility. Not long ago, a book was published to some acclaim that posited that science had "already discovered" pretty much "everything" that "could be discovered".

Not to mention that a few "scientists" have "jumped on the godwagon" in the U.S. -- one can hardly imagine them contributing anything useful to the sum of human knowledge.

I agree that at some point, "traditional values" will be "all that's left" of bourgeois ideology...they simply won't be able to think of anything else to say.

But even in capitalism's "last days", I think there will still be capitalists making a profit by undermining those "values".

Where "Profit is Lord", everything else is secondary and must be set aside.

[JC1]

I agree, Redstar2k.

My main point of contention was this "The market will disolve everything not directly related to it" attitude in youre last post.

Capitalism dosent dissolve those thing's, it subvert's them to the market's use.

However, becuase "profit is lord", like you say, Capitalism produce contradictory result's.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by redstar2000
You mean Sony is not going to release Playstation 3 this year???

Not that it is of any importance, but apparently the new "Playstation 3" has been manufactured to be more gender neutral.

It does fit into what you were saying about Capitalism being essentially secular and a-sexual if there are profits to be had.

The sex industry being a great example of that, as far as I know, nearly all human pornography had been mainly aimed a male pleasure, however gradually it seems that this bias is equalling out. Indeed I read somewhere that in some places women are now the main source of capital for the sex industry.