Che-oppose or Pro IRA?

[ReD_ReBeL]

I was just thinking , Would Che be for or against the IRA? hmm im not sure he would most definately support the cause but some of there actions? i am not sure. What do the rest of you think?

[hamperleft]

yea, no doubt Che would probably behind most of their causes(some crazey factions excluded) some of there more violant, and somewhat pointless actions, he would mostlikley back away from, i'm not condeming all there actions though, it's alot better now that they are not murdering people left and right.

[ReD_ReBeL]

yea cool so what are the IRA doing these days? And was it all IRA factions thats put there arms down?

[Janus]

I'm pretty sure it was just the Provisional IRA that agreed to the disarmament. Other groups such as the True IRA that was responsible for the 1998 Omagh bombing still haven't laid down their arms.

I would like to believe that Che would have supported the IRA since it wanted to form an independent nation free from British influence. However, I don't think that Che would be very proud of the Provo's rejection of Marxism as opposed to the Official IRA.

[ReD_ReBeL]

yea, Comrade Qui, what is your opinion on the IRa's bombing strategies? i certainly do not like the bombings of civilian targets , shops etc

[Janus]

I don't see how the killing of civilians will help the IRA particularly since many of the civilian killings resulted in major public backlashes. However, I suppose that the IRA feels that it's justified because it will gain public attention and make the policy-makers such as the British believe that it isn't worth the trouble and withdraw. After all, the bombings particularly that attempted assasination of Margaret Thatcher did bring the British onto the negotiation table. War is hell, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Either way, the murder of civilians wasn't really justified since it just brought on Loyalist and public backlash and did the IRA more harm than good.

[ReD_ReBeL]

is there any faction of IRA that does not target civilian places?

[Janus]

I'm not sure if the Official IRA targeted civilians or not during the early 20th century. But I know that after the Troubles began heating up again in 1969, none of the would-be factions ever expressly prevented any of its members from targeting civilians.

[hamperleft]

some of the main factions discuraged the practice, due mainly as you said to the public back lash, but the killings continued, at the time it may have been nessisary(not right) but nessisary for the killings to occure to gain attention, but now that they have attracted attention all of most of the globes attention, there is really no need for a continuation of violance.

[Guerrilla22]

I would think Che would have supported the IRA, due to the fact the IRA was fighting against the colonialist English government.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by Comrade Qiu@Dec 21 2005, 03:24 AM
I'm pretty sure it was just the Provisional IRA that agreed to the disarmament. Other groups such as the True IRA that was responsible for the 1998 Omagh bombing still haven't laid down their arms.

The Real IRA bombed Omagh.

Its pointless asking what a dead man would do. That said all Marxists of note have supported Irish independence.

[Janus]

Comradeom, the Real IRA and the True IRA are the same organization, in case you didn't know.

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by Comrade Qiu@Dec 21 2005, 09:42 PM
Comradeom, the Real IRA and the True IRA are the same organization, in case you didn't know.

I have never heard anyone calling them the True IRA, only the Real IRA.

[ComradeOm]

That's because they're only ever called the Real IRA

Each IRA group claims to be the only "true" one but none have taken it as their name.

[Seven Stars]

It was not IRA policy to target civilians, yes civilians were killed, it is a war and thats what happens. What the media calls the IRA now a days, the Provisional IRA, gave up in 1986 when they entered into constitutional politics. Those that remained true to Republican pinciples reorganized under the leadership of the Continuity Army Council (Continuity IRA). Years later the 'Real' IRA was formed, in 1997. I am not goin to say which is the 'true' IRA as that does us no good. Actions speak louder than words, and none of the current groups have shown us anythin worth wild. But the fight is not over, and will continue until the Workers Republic is established.

[TupacAndChe4Eva]

Che would have stood for Irish independence.

The IRA, and its splinter factions, I am not too sure.

Some of his work clashes with tactics used by the IRA.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Irish independence yes, the IRA, I hope not. Just as I support Iraqi independence, yet not Muslim extremists, the same applies in Ireland.

I think it is a mischaracterisation, at least of any Marxist who have lived in affected areas, to claim they support the IRA. I personally despise them and what they stand for, apart from the one issue of independence. Just because you think the Brits should fuck off does not mean that you have to actually "support" the IRA.

[The Grey Blur]

As ComradeOm said it is useless speculating what a dead man would have thought but a few things can be said;

1)Che would have been pro-Provisional IRA simply because they were anti-Imperialist, the same as any Socialist; you cannot call yourself a leftist and then deny a truly anti-Imperialist movement your support.

Like most European Socialist groups at the time of the major IRA campaign Che would most likely have taken the "critical support" route.

2) The Official IRA are not a group to be commended; they were of a majority blinded by a muddled ideology. Instead of protecting innocent Catholics from the pogroms they cowered away and made a poor attempt at class-based politics. They wanted to be seen as a legitimate political force but at the same time they were shooting squaddies dead in the Bogside.

The splinter group of the OIRA - the INLA/IRSP - were a truly Socialist Republican movement.

I personally despise them and what they stand for

Can I just ask why you despise an anti-Imperialist, left-leaning, guerilla army?

[Janus]

Each IRA group claims to be the only "true" one but none have taken it as their name.

Are you sure of that? I've usually heard the Real IRA refer to itself as the True IRA (notice that true is capitalized). Since real and true are synonyms in this context, it would make no difference whether they called themselves Real or True. Either way, they're politically insignificant at this moment. However, in order to please you, I will make sure to call them the Real IRA next time.

Instead of protecting innocent Catholics from the pogroms

None of the IRA factions ever actually protected Catholics. That would be impossible given their numbers. They simply retaliated for every Catholic killed by British or Loyalist forces, which led to further violence on the Catholic community.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by Comrade Qiu@Dec 22 2005, 05:35 PM
None of the IRA factions ever actually protected Catholics. That would be impossible given their numbers. They simply retaliated for every Catholic killed by British or Loyalist forces, which led to further violence on the Catholic community.

Then why were there no further pogroms after 1969?

That's right; because the Protestants knew there was every chance a spray of bullets would come in their direction.