What about black nationalism?

[WarLord]

http://thetalkingdrum.com/

http://inpdum.org/

http://www.freewebs.com/aaprp_atlanta/'

One of the things that enspired me was reading about people like Malcom X and The Black Panther Party etc. but as I got older, I noticed alot of contradictions in their ideals. For example, most black nationalists consider themselves to be socialists but their ultimate goal is to achieve independence and seperatism for black people. Nationalism obviously conflicts with socialism. So my question to white revolutionaries is what do you think about black nationalism? Do you support it?

[Delirium]

Though i can sympathize with thier condition, they are nationalists just the same. i wont further double standards, many black nationalist groups are pretty much hate groups themselves.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

I'm a huge follower of Huey Newton's [founder of the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense] political philosophy, but I am Chicano, not African-American. The Panthers did NOT want Black separatism, they wanted Black liberation. Here's a GREAT piece to read, it's an interview with Huey Newton discussing how the Panthers worked with White comrades and why the party itself was exclusively Black. The logic makes perfect sense and the ultimate goal of the BPP was Socialism, as you said; true Socialism. Huey was a Maoist!

Long live the Panthers, comrades with answers.


http://www.hippy.com/php/article.php?sid=76

Regarding your first link, Pan-Africanism is not a bad idea, just as Pan-Americanism is not either. Simon Bolivar was a Pan-Americanist and I would imagine that you have quite a high opinion of him if you are a lefty. Pan-Africanism is not racist, it is a movement for the unity of a people/continent to lift themselves out of poverty and oppression. The only way Africa will ever be able to move forward is if it is unified under a common cause. In order for this to actually benefit the African people, however, this must be a Socialist cause, which is what most Pan-Africanists propose.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by WarLord@Nov 26 2005, 01:29 AM
http://thetalkingdrum.com/

http://inpdum.org/

http://www.freewebs.com/aaprp_atlanta/'

One of the things that enspired me was reading about people like Malcom X and The Black Panther Party etc. but as I got older, I noticed alot of contradictions in their ideals. For example, most black nationalists consider themselves to be socialists but their ultimate goal is to achieve independence and seperatism for black people. Nationalism obviously conflicts with socialism. So my question to white revolutionaries is what do you think about black nationalism? Do you support it?

Nationalism does not conflict with socialism. Any real Marxist would support nationalism of oppressed nations and oppose oppressor nation nationalism.

Read Mao.

[Marx is a dead]

Originally posted by Comrade Marcel+Nov 27 2005, 06:11 PM--> (Comrade Marcel @ Nov 27 2005, 06:11 PM)

WarLord

@Nov 26 2005, 01:29 AM
http://thetalkingdrum.com/

http://inpdum.org/

http://www.freewebs.com/aaprp_atlanta/'

One of the things that enspired me was reading about people like Malcom X and The Black Panther Party etc. but as I got older, I noticed alot of contradictions in their ideals. For example, most black nationalists consider themselves to be socialists but their ultimate goal is to achieve independence and seperatism for black people. Nationalism obviously conflicts with socialism. So my question to white revolutionaries is what do you think about black nationalism? Do you support it?

Nationalism does not conflict with socialism. Any real Marxist would support nationalism of oppressed nations and oppose oppressor nation nationalism.

Read Mao. [/b]

You mean like Mao oppressing Tibetans?

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by Marx is a dead+Nov 28 2005, 02:21 AM--> (Marx is a dead @ Nov 28 2005, 02:21 AM)

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 27 2005, 06:11 PM

WarLord

@Nov 26 2005, 01:29 AM
http://thetalkingdrum.com/

http://inpdum.org/

http://www.freewebs.com/aaprp_atlanta/'

One of the things that enspired me was reading about people like Malcom X and The Black Panther Party etc. but as I got older, I noticed alot of contradictions in their ideals. For example, most black nationalists consider themselves to be socialists but their ultimate goal is to achieve independence and seperatism for black people. Nationalism obviously conflicts with socialism. So my question to white revolutionaries is what do you think about black nationalism? Do you support it?

Nationalism does not conflict with socialism. Any real Marxist would support nationalism of oppressed nations and oppose oppressor nation nationalism.

Read Mao.

You mean like Mao oppressing Tibetans? [/b]

http://individual.utoronto.ca/mrodden/study/tibet.htm

[bcbm]

Originally posted by WarLord@Nov 25 2005, 07:35 PM
most black nationalists consider themselves to be socialists but their ultimate goal is to achieve independence and seperatism for black people.

Nationalism doesn't have to mean seperatism. I don't think black nationalists want to be isolated and seperated entire from all white people, or non-blacks, they simply want to have autonomy and control over their own communities and lives and not have to answer to white landlords, politicians, etc.

Nationalism obviously conflicts with socialism.

Not inherently.

So my question to white revolutionaries is what do you think about black nationalism? Do you support it?

I definitely support it.

[farleft]

WTF?

Black nationalism? all nationalism is a bad thing, doesnt matter if its black, white or religious.

As a communist you can't support any form of nationalism.

If they were socialists then would colour matter? surely they would want it equal for everyone, united in the same land. If thats true then they are not black nationalists just black socialists.

I support any socialists, colour irrelevant.

[KGB5097]

Too many people took Malcolm X's message wrong.....

No type of "nationalism" in this sence is acceptable. In the way its put here it boils down to racism, which we all should be 100% opposed to.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

"There are two kinds of nationalism, revolutionary nationalism and reactionary nationalism. Revolutionary nationalism is first dependent upon a people's revolution with the end goal being the people in power. Therefore to be a revolutionary nationalist you would by necessity have to be a socialist. It you are a reactionary nationalist you are not a socialist and your end goal to the oppression of the people." -Huey Newton

[bayano]

i always hate this analysis that attacks oppressed nations and peoples as if they have any sort of relation to white fascism. if u attack nationalism, how do you respond to anti-colonial struggles in angola, mozambique, tanzania, and the rest of africa, viet nam, india, palestine, south america against spain and portugal, the haitians against the french?

there is some black radicalism that is over the edge and bizarre, but no more than there is amid white radicalism or brown radicalism, and it usually emits from the intense frustration of an oppressed people, coupled often times with opportunistic leadership.

but most Black radicalism, nationalist or not, is advanced beyond most white-dominated radicalism on any number of potent issues and strategic elements.

[BorisB]

Well I am actually a mulatto as in my father is German and my mother Kenyan. I think that people should not bread hate among races but should teach on how to live thougether. I mean we are all the same, hence i think that Black Nationalism is only a response to the ill treatment of black people in the states, but then again it does go too far at times, hence i do not fully support it.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by BorisB@Dec 20 2005, 11:28 AM
Well I am actually a mulatto as in my father is German and my mother Kenyan. I think that people should not bread hate among races but should teach on how to live thougether. I mean we are all the same, hence i think that Black Nationalism is only a response to the ill treatment of black people in the states, but then again it does go too far at times, hence i do not fully support it.

Nationalism doesn't necessarily mean there is hatred, racial distinctions or theories of superiority. Many nationalists simply want sovereignty. The Cuban, Vietnamese and Chinese revolutions all sprung from national-liberation struggles.

[SanPatricio'sSoul]

Originally posted by WarLord@Nov 26 2005, 01:24 AM
http://thetalkingdrum.com/

http://inpdum.org/

http://www.freewebs.com/aaprp_atlanta/'

One of the things that enspired me was reading about people like Malcom X and The Black Panther Party etc. but as I got older, I noticed alot of contradictions in their ideals. For example, most black nationalists consider themselves to be socialists but their ultimate goal is to achieve independence and seperatism for black people. Nationalism obviously conflicts with socialism. So my question to white revolutionaries is what do you think about black nationalism? Do you support it?

I have been reading this book entitled "The last years of Malcolm X", and it had a very informing passage on nationalism. It basically said (and I'm paraphrasing) "what seperated Black Nationalism from Traditional, Classic, or Model nationalism is the fact that Racial Seperatist philosophy wasn't neccesary to be a Black Nationalist." Now I myself do not support racist nationalism that is usually seen in the United States, but let me break it down like this on an organizational level. The Nation of Islam is a prime example of a Black National Seperatist movement. Their main political demands (although they were not in most senses a political organization so much as a religious movement) were seperate land in Africa or the United States for Black People. Marcus Garvey was also a nationalist in this sense, although his political activism has done more good then not so I can't hold this against him. But the Organization of Afro-American Unity (Malcolm X's Organization) was not at all a seperatist movement, but was really what introduced Pan-Africanism to Black America. The Black Panther Party was also far from a Seperatist organization, but they wanted much of what the OAAU wanted. These are all pretty much considered Black Nationalist movements (although in the case of Marcus Garvey if he is historically considered a Black Nationalist, he is a Black Nationalist before it was called that).

[Iroquois Xavier]

I support anyone who promotes racial equality. One Love

[RNK]

In my opinion, after having been kidnapped, brought to North America, and used as slaves for a couple hundred years, they deserve to get a piece of the global pie.

[YSR]

[QUOTE]In my opinion, after having been kidnapped, brought to North America, and used as slaves for a couple hundred years, they deserve to get a piece of the global pie.[QUOTE]

I don't you're going to find many people here who disagree with that. But that's not the point. Are you saying through this that you support the concept of black nationalism. I've gotta agree with Xavier: Equality is where it's at, not neccessarily how it comes to be. I won't support anyone's nationalism if it comes with the price tag of race-baiting and hatred.

[La Comédie Noire]

Before I reply, Black Nationalism Is not Facism.

Anyways, I am supportive of the movement,even its continuation, and what Malcolm X stood for. People think racism and stereotyping African Americans in the United States is over, sadly all you need to do is turn on MTV to see a stereotypical, even offensive, portrayal of what some people think a "true" black person should act like.

[RNK]

No, I just think they deserve a break, to spend a century or so with a whip in their hand and some white folk at their feet.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Nationalism doesn't have to mean seperatism. I don't think black nationalists want to be isolated and seperated entire from all white people, or non-blacks, they simply want to have autonomy and control over their own communities and lives and not have to answer to white landlords, politicians, etc.

Look at what the Nation of Islam wants:

4. We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own--either on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 years--until we are able to produce and supply our own needs.

Since we cannot get along with them in peace and equality, after giving them 400 years of our sweat and blood and receiving in return some of the worst treatment human beings have ever experienced, we believe our contributions to this land and the suffering forced upon us by white America, justifies our demand for complete separation in a state or territory of our own

Source: WHAT THE NOI WANTS

Black nationalism is linked with seperatism.