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I haven't heard of or seen any activity in my area. I'm really starting to wonder if any groups exist in Cincinatti. I know there are gropus in the state, I've heard there is quite a large leftist population in Columbus but other than that i've got nothin. If any one knows anything, or anyone, I'd appreciate some info.
If I don't make it, tell everyone I've had my fun.
Peace Unity Liberty Equality Tolerance.
Im unaware of Groups in America, as I live in the UK. However, I recommend looking to some of the Larger groups in America. They should be listed in the Practice Forum under 'Action'. Im sure they will help you out with finding local comrades or groups.
Some of these include the RAAN and the RCP.
"How you cling to your purity, young man! How afraid you are to soil your hands! All right, stay pure! What good will it do? Why did you join us? Purity is an idea for a yogi or a monk. You intellectuals and Bourgeois anarchists use it as a pretext for doing nothing. To do nothing, to remain motionless, arms at your sides, wearing kids gloves. Well, I have dirty hands. Right up to the elbows. I've plunged them in the filth and blood. But what do you hope? Do you think you'll govern innocently?"-Jean-Paul Sartre
I've heard that Cincinatti is one of the biggest conservative metropolitan cities in the US. Through my searches I didn't find any leftist groups there. I understand Colombus having a large leftist community, because it is a college town.
The International Socialist Organization, a Trotskyist Revolutionary Socialist group (and the largest Revolutionary Socialist group in the US) which is the former American branch of the UK Socialist Workers Party has a branch in both Cincinatiti and Columbus.
Cincinnati
Meetings are on Thursdays at 7 p.m. at the University of Cincinnati, Swift Hall, Room 516.
Call 859-801-2870 | E-mail [email protected]
Columbus, Ohio
Meetings are on Tuesdays at 7:30 p.m. at Ohio State University, Hagerty Hall, Room 050 (1775 College Rd., South Oval).
Call 614-781-1081 | E-mail [email protected]
I got this information from the ISO's branch page: http://www.internationalsocialist.org/branches.html
Which failed; I went to jail at the age of 15
A young buck selling drugs and such who never had much
Trying to get a clutch at what I could not... could not...
The court played me short, now I face incarceration
Pacing -- going upstate's my destination
Handcuffed in back of a bus, forty of us
Life as a shorty shouldn't be so rough
But as the world turned I learned life is hell
Living in the world no different from a cell
-Wu-Tang Clan "CREAM"
I'm head of a small group of 6 in california. we're trying to expand to other citys and states tho.
WE WILL CHANGE THE VIEWS OF THE STUPID DEMOCRATS AND BRING PEACE AND ANARCHY TO THE MUCH REVERED YET MUCH HATED UNITED STATES!
What exactly is the ideology of your group?
Which failed; I went to jail at the age of 15
A young buck selling drugs and such who never had much
Trying to get a clutch at what I could not... could not...
The court played me short, now I face incarceration
Pacing -- going upstate's my destination
Handcuffed in back of a bus, forty of us
Life as a shorty shouldn't be so rough
But as the world turned I learned life is hell
Living in the world no different from a cell
-Wu-Tang Clan "CREAM"
I think the Communist League may have supporters there.
Word of advice; steer clear of the ISO -- unless you like working in "Vote Nader" campaigns
If you can't find anyone who you want to work with in your area, try starting a branch of an organization you would like to work with. Don't let convenience force you into working with a group that you don't politically agree with.
"Getting a job, finding a mate, having a place to live, finding a creative outlet. Life is a war of attrition. You have to stay active on all fronts. It's one thing after another. I've tried to control a chaotic universe. And it's a losing battle. But I can't let go. I've tried, but I can't." - Harvey Pekar
Right...Originally posted by CompaneroDeLibertad@Dec 6 2005, 07:47 PM
Word of advice; steer clear of the ISO -- unless you like working in "Vote Nader" campaigns
This debate has been had over and over again, the ISO supported Nader in an attempt to influence people into thinking outside of the two-party system. No, it was not some turn towards reformism. However, your advice is still good: steer clear of the ISO if you like working in campaigns, or doing any kind of activism or actual work in building the Left at all. Go straight to some of the other organizations out there if you would like to sit around with some coffee-shop revolutionary 50-year olds discussing theoretical Marxism and not actually doing anything active or having any connection to the Working Class
Which failed; I went to jail at the age of 15
A young buck selling drugs and such who never had much
Trying to get a clutch at what I could not... could not...
The court played me short, now I face incarceration
Pacing -- going upstate's my destination
Handcuffed in back of a bus, forty of us
Life as a shorty shouldn't be so rough
But as the world turned I learned life is hell
Living in the world no different from a cell
-Wu-Tang Clan "CREAM"
Umm, yeah. Take it from Cowshed. He's an objective observer.Originally posted by BattleOfTheCowshed+Dec 7 2005, 02:21 AM--> (BattleOfTheCowshed @ Dec 7 2005, 02:21 AM)Right...@Dec 6 2005, 07:47 PM
Word of advice; steer clear of the ISO -- unless you like working in "Vote Nader" campaigns
Miles
Originally posted by CommunistLeague+Dec 7 2005, 08:31 AM--> (CommunistLeague @ Dec 7 2005, 08:31 AM)Umm, yeah. Take it from Cowshed. He's an objective observer.Right...@Dec 6 2005, 07:47 PM
Word of advice; steer clear of the ISO -- unless you like working in "Vote Nader" campaigns
Miles [/b]
Which failed; I went to jail at the age of 15
A young buck selling drugs and such who never had much
Trying to get a clutch at what I could not... could not...
The court played me short, now I face incarceration
Pacing -- going upstate's my destination
Handcuffed in back of a bus, forty of us
Life as a shorty shouldn't be so rough
But as the world turned I learned life is hell
Living in the world no different from a cell
-Wu-Tang Clan "CREAM"
Subjective and a little misleading. Yes, the ISO has a large membership ... on paper. How many are actually active? Certainly more than the Spartacists or all the other uber-Trots. But to say that the ISO is "(by far) [the] most active" of such groups -- to say nothing of all self-described revolutionary socialist/communist groups -- is rather subjective. You cannot know what's really happening in other parts of the country -- the ISO's information bulletins notwithstanding.
"Rebuilding the Left"?!
You don't get out much, do you? Seriously, this is a rather ignorant (and hideously sectarian) statement.@Dec 7 2005, 03:58 AM
With the exception of a few major groups (RCP, WWP, etc) I can't recall the last time I saw any other leftist group out on the streets fighting for justice, or trying to recruit and organize in unions and workplaces, or consistently at the anti-war barricades
Will you be in Toledo this Saturday, Cowshed? The League will be there.
Miles
What's unwarranted about it? The ISO actively campaigned for a pro-capitalist, anti-immigrant candidate in a bourgeois election. That was a good way to lose whatever credability they had left.
If you define groups like the ISO as "revolutionary", then I guess you'd find that the CPUSA is much bigger. They have about 5,500 as opposed to the ISO's official number of 1,300.
And I would be careful with getting too excited about that 1,300. College students who sign on as paper members for a few years are hardly a strong foundation on which to build a revolutionary party.
Which "solid leftist campaigns" would those be?
That's funny because I can. Maybe you should open your eyes a little wider next time you're out.
And "trying" is the key word in that comment. Keep trying, maybe one day your student group will actually get a real live worker to join!
"Getting a job, finding a mate, having a place to live, finding a creative outlet. Life is a war of attrition. You have to stay active on all fronts. It's one thing after another. I've tried to control a chaotic universe. And it's a losing battle. But I can't let go. I've tried, but I can't." - Harvey Pekar
What is on paper is the number that are active. In order to be a member you HAVE to be an active cadre. If we were to count the number of people who occasionally come to meetings or subscribe to the Socialist Worker or come to conferences and what not, the number would probably be triple what it is. Like I said, there are some Maoist groups like the RCP and reformist groups like DSA and what not that may have more members or be more active, but as far as revolutionary Socialism goes, I don't know of any group that has been more active. I'm not here to be dogmatic or boastful about this, if you know of another group, please do tell me.
What makes you think we aren't organizing working class people? That is pretty much what we do, we actually have a sizable representation in various union locals and what not. Isn't the Communist League supposed to be a clandestine organization? How are you organizing workers and spreading your message to workplaces if you are some secretive group? By rebuilding the Left, I did not (as you seem to have interpreted me to mean) mean working with Liberals or whatever. I meant we fight in real everyday struggles (anti-death penalty work, anti-war work, etc.) to work towards class consciousness and a revolution, not just assume that that will come via publishing lit or whatever."Rebuilding the Left"?!
Umm, I'm "out" several times a week out on the street selling our paper and talking to people where I live (a working class neighborhood in a major Northeastern city), I've spent the past two weeks working to get clemency for Stan "Tookie" Williams, I participated in the Sept. 24th protest, I participated in the Campus Anti-War Network's day of resistance and I'm currently helping other ISO members in their unionization struggle here in NYC.
No, I live far away and can't afford to fly out there. I am pretty sure the ISO will have a representation there however. More importantly, the ISO was present at the ORIGINAL Toledo Riot, was the Communist League there?
Like I said before, I don't mean to attack the CL or ANY other revolutionary leftist group out there, I'm cool with any comrades who are down for the struggle, I'm just here to defend the ISO from these attacks, especially when we're accused of being "inactive" or bourgeoisie in nature when we are one of the groups out there in the forefront of the struggle.
Which failed; I went to jail at the age of 15
A young buck selling drugs and such who never had much
Trying to get a clutch at what I could not... could not...
The court played me short, now I face incarceration
Pacing -- going upstate's my destination
Handcuffed in back of a bus, forty of us
Life as a shorty shouldn't be so rough
But as the world turned I learned life is hell
Living in the world no different from a cell
-Wu-Tang Clan "CREAM"
Nice defence, Cowshed.
There are a few comrades who like to turn everything into a sterile sectarian mud sling.
Pretty dull, really.
Since, according to their fantasy, the relationships of men, all their doings, their chains and their limitations are products of their consciousness, the Young Hegelians logically put to men the moral postulate of exchanging their present consciousness for human, critical or egoistic consciousness, and thus of removing their limitations. This demand to change consciousness amounts to a demand to interpret reality in another way, i.e. to recognise it by means of another interpretation. The Young-Hegelian ideologists, in spite of their allegedly "world-shattering" statements, are the staunchest conservatives.
Karl Marx
Yes and I think it is obvious from the candidate chosen that the goal was not some reformist dream of electing a Socialist, but to aid in breaking up the two-party system and open people's minds to other alternatives. By participating in a major campaign we were also attempting to move the political argument to the left.
Care to enlighten me as to how the ISO is not revolutionary? Did we say that electing Nader would bring about the revolution? No. We have stated over and over again that we believe revolution is the only solution.
Your facts are incorrect. I would say only about half of our members are students. More importantly, are you stating that students are a non-revolutionary force? Just because we are students does not mean we are bourgeoisie. All of us come from working class families and more importantly we WORK and are members of the working class. Which one of us is being elitist here? And as I stated to Communist League, being a member has nothing to do with being on "paper", trust me, if we counted everyone who had ever signed up on paper we would be bigger than even the CPUSA, in order to be a member you MUST be an active cadre.
The ISO is one of the leading groups in the fight to save Stan "Tookie" Williams. We have been heavily involved in the anti-war struggle, many of our student members are also members of the Campus Anti-War Network. Our members were heavily involved in the New York City UFT strike/contract negotiations. And (this one is especially for you since you seem to dislike students) we are currently helping the NYU grad students unionize under the UAW, our members arguing to keep striking past the negotiation deadline, which the union voted to keep doing. As I mentioned above, we were also involved in the ORIGINAL Toledo riot as well as anti-racist struggles across the country.
Maybe I should? Or maybe I should go to whereever they are organizing? I live in one of the poorest working-class neighborhoods in New York City which is composed of mostly African-Americans and Latinos and I never see em around. Only time I ever see the myriad of other groups is when I go to conferences and what not.
Funny...not. Like I said earlier, all of our members are working class people. We don't believe that just because someone is young or has gone on to get a higher education that they are not members of the working class. Moreover your statement is quite simply factually incorrect, not all of our members are students, many of them ARE, as you would define them, "real live workers" :P
And "trying" is the key word in that comment. Keep trying, maybe one day your student group will actually get a real live worker to join!
Which failed; I went to jail at the age of 15
A young buck selling drugs and such who never had much
Trying to get a clutch at what I could not... could not...
The court played me short, now I face incarceration
Pacing -- going upstate's my destination
Handcuffed in back of a bus, forty of us
Life as a shorty shouldn't be so rough
But as the world turned I learned life is hell
Living in the world no different from a cell
-Wu-Tang Clan "CREAM"
This I know for a fact is not true. Maybe you don't know what your Center in Chicago is doing, but they're handing out ISO memberships like candy. I know two members of the League, for example, who received ISO membership cards after merely signing up for more information. I also know of people in the Socialist Party, Communist Party, Solidarity and other organizations who have had similar experiences.
It appears that, for you, Trotskyism equals revolutionary socialism. That alone is a problem, but it's also a subject for a different thread. Look, as I said before, I know the ISO is larger than the other Trot organizations. I'm not disputing that. But I also know of a lot of smaller organizations whose members attend the same events, carry out similar work and, generally speaking, are as active as any ISO member is.
I never said you weren't. I know the ISO has had a presence, for example, in the Teamsters since before it split from the Draperite IS back in the 1970s. My point was that the resources your organization is devoting to "rebuilding the left" would be better spent organizing workers.
There is no dichotomy between being a clandestine organization and recruiting working people in workplaces. If there was, the Bolsheviks -- to use an example that would appeal to you -- would have remained a clot of exiled radicals spread thinly throughout Europe.
Actually, I understood "rebuilding the left" to mean the typically stupid tactic of building "unity for unity's sake" among left organizations. If this is not what you meant, then fine. But your definition of what you mean by "rebuilding the left" begs the question: Among whom are you "work[ing] towards class consciousness" in this work, workers or petty-bourgeois?
While I may not go out and sell papers several times a week (though I do regular lit drops and distributions every week), your level of activity and mine are similar -- which was part of my point, the other part being that you didn't know that and yet automatically assumed I wasn't active. Again, you can be active and clandestine at the same time.
First, it was a rebellion, not a "riot", and, second, yes, League members were there.
Well, I never accused the ISO of being "inactive". What I questioned is your assertion that it was "(by far) [the] most active", when the reality is that you do not know the level of activity of communists and revolutionary socialists in other parts of the U.S.
I also never accused the ISO of being "bourgeois" in nature. If I was going to make any kind of accusation along class lines, it would be that of being petty-bourgeois in nature.
Miles
Having participated in helping recruit some people to the ISO I can say that siging those red membership cards means almost nothing. Those are mostly used to keep track of who has an intention of joining, its usually not until someone starts coming to weekly meetings, going on paper sales and actually being a cadre that they are considered members. For example, I have a contact who has been kind of in-and-out of the group, will sign a membership card, come to meetings for a month, sorta drift away for a while, then rejoin etc. He has filled out a membership card but he is NOT considered a member, that is, he is not on our branch roster. I'm not sure which membership stats the comrades in Chicago are using but I would say don't put that much value in those membership cards, we count cadres.
Well, I consider Trotskyism to be a type of revolutionary socialism, but I recognize there are others out there who fight for the same things I do who are not necessarily Trotskyists and I WOULD recognize them as revolutionary socialists.
I understand what you're saying, we view a lot of these more-mainstream leftist struggles as all relating to the struggle of the proletariat however. For example, when discussing Tookie Williams case or anti-death penalty work we always stress that this isn't just a singular case, we stress that its representative of the systematic poverty and racism that is the symptom of capitalism. We also stress the connection between militarism/war and capitalism etc. Its true that since a lot of our organizing takes place on campuses that we attract a lot of often bourgeoisie support for certain struggles, however for the most part we are organizing workers. Although many of our members are students, most of us are working class workers, we do come from working class and poor homes, etc. Also, as you stated, we have a presence in various unions.
I agree, I guess I just had a different conception of what the CL was like. I thought by clandestine you guys meant that you spent all your time secretly-planning stuff and never having a visible presence among workers. But if you were referring to Bolshevik-style secrecy, thats cool.
Nah, occasionally we work with groups that are not explicitly socialist (like anti-death penalty groups, anti-war groups etc. that are radical but not necessarily Marxist) but we are definitly not "unity for unity's sake". We are definitely trying to build class consciousness in workers. As I stated before, since many of us are on college campuses often our audience is bourgeois in nature, but our goal is DEFINITELY to organize the working class.
I didn't assume you were inactive, I'm assuming thats a reference to my way early comment about "sit[ting] around with some coffee-shop revolutionary 50-year olds discussing theoretical Marxism and not actually doing anything active or having any connection to the Working Class". That was NOT a reference to the CL, sorry if you mistook it that way, I was referring to a lot of groups that really are inactive, at least among actual working class people. I completely understand that there are comrades in other leftist groups just as active if not more active than the ISO, thats my point, the ISO is pretty much just as active as any other revolutionary leftist group out there, yet we are often accused of being dumb middle-class kids who are reformists. First of all, thats just not factually true. But guess what, working class people occasionally make it to college too. And just because we're in college doesnt mean we arent pissed off and wanna destroy capitalism.
Thats cool that League members were there. Oh and by riot I did NOT mean any kind of negative connotation. I know sometimes the media uses the word "riot" in a bad light, but I kinda like the connotation that it brings, the sudden outburst of anger
Eh, I was probably being unfair in saying "by far the most active", I guess I was just trying to defend the ISO from what I saw as another attack. These attacks accusing people of being "bourgeois" (which I know you did not do but which others have done) can be pretty frustrating when day-in day-out you are the only group that is actually organizing people on the street, that is actually out in the ghetto, that is actually out in workplaces etc (talking about my neighborhood, I realize its probably different everywhere). Oh and I would completely disagree with the idea that the ISO is pett-bourgeois in nature, what makes you say that? Anyway, sorry if I blew up or whatever, hehe, I respect the CL as well as almost every other group of workers out there fighting the good fight, I didn't mean to attack anyone.
Umm, I kinda forgot to log in, but as I'm sure is obvious, the last message is from me.
Which failed; I went to jail at the age of 15
A young buck selling drugs and such who never had much
Trying to get a clutch at what I could not... could not...
The court played me short, now I face incarceration
Pacing -- going upstate's my destination
Handcuffed in back of a bus, forty of us
Life as a shorty shouldn't be so rough
But as the world turned I learned life is hell
Living in the world no different from a cell
-Wu-Tang Clan "CREAM"
