anti-fascists fight "America's Nazi Party" in Ohio

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by bed_of_nails@Oct 21 2005, 08:53 PM
"Whitey" (I assume thats what you meant with "whitty" for I have never heard that phrase before) is a generally racist term also.

Redneck is a lifestyle, not a class. Look at the Jeff Foxworthy bunch. They proudly proclaim their redneckiness and are making a living off of it.

You could say the same thing about "hip-hop" and people do. THey say the "problem" with black people is "hip-hop" culture. And sure there are some reactionary aspects of "hip-hop" but is it the cause of these things or the root of mesoginist ideas? Of course not. So "hip-hop" culture is often used by right wingers to mask their racism: "If only these balck people would abandon 'their hip-hop' culture they could suceed in America and wouldn't be in prisons and so on".

I feel "redneck" is the same way. It's like "well the reason all these people are poor and uneducated and live in trailers is because of their accent or culture or whatever and if they traded in the jeans and pick-up for slacks and SUVs, then they wouldn't be poor". It's BS and devicive.

I have only heard "Whitey" in reference to powerful white people, whereas rednecks is almost exclusively for poor whites.

"White Trash" is synomomous more with an attitude/lifestyle than it is with class. There are numerous celebrities that are quite wealthy and are still considered "white trash".

Again, this could be said of "hip-hop" culture as well. There are definately some rich cats out there making money off the image of being "ghetto".

"White trash/Trailer-trash" is the same thing as being "ghetto": it's devicive and points the finger at some "other" group of people as being the cause of social ills rather than rightfully locating the problem as the system itself.

[bed_of_nails]

The question at hand now is if it is bad to look like you came from an impoverished neighborhood.

I certainly dont believe so.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Yeah, this got off-topic fast.

It's not bad to look poor, it's only bad to wear Nazi or racist stuff!

[violencia.Proletariat]

i dont know if this has been touched in this thread but were the local buisnesses, the bar especially, supporting of the nazi march? i read this on libcom.org but i havent heard it anywhere else. can anyone back it up?

[Ginger Goodwin]

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by YouKnowTheyMurderedX@Oct 21 2005, 05:10 PM
If 'white trash' isn't an euphimism for the poorer sections of the working class, what is it?

You're mixing up with "trailer trash".

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by RedFaction+Oct 22 2005, 11:19 AM--> (RedFaction @ Oct 22 2005, 11:19 AM)

YouKnowTheyMurderedX

@Oct 21 2005, 05:10 PM
If 'white trash' isn't an euphimism for the poorer sections of the working class, what is it?

You're mixing up with "trailer trash". [/b]

Oh, of course I'm bloody not - it's the same fucking thing: poor, white people.

If you want to use middle class comdeic terms for the poor, that's fine, but not here - geddit?

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Xvall@Oct 21 2005, 07:13 PM
"White Trash" is synomomous more with an attitude/lifestyle than it is with class. There are numerous celebrities that are quite wealthy and are still considered "white trash".

OK, so it's just trashing w/c culture, lifestyles, attitudes, areas, likes/dislikes and education levels, rather than just the poor themselves?!

Oh well, that's alright then.

Idiot.

[Xvall]

Please do me a favor and go fuck yourself. Thanks. Asinine jackass.

I never said it was "acceptable" or "alright". I said it was more of an issue of lifestyle than it was of race, and you went and threw a little hissy fit. Grow up.

[YKTMX]

I said it was more of an issue of lifestyle than it was of race, and you went and threw a little hissy fit. Grow up.

I agree with you, it is about "lifestyle" - a working class lifestyle, which some middle class comics and politicians like to snigger at - including you.

[TC]

Uh, i didn't say "white trash"

The reality is that Nazis, as in NAZIs, not Neo-cons or Republicans or Libertarians but NAZIS, are mostly a white rural phenomenon. These aren't working class people, working class people like have jobs (thats what makes them *working* class), and live around cities.

Part of american political demographics is that southern rural whites tend to be much much more conservative and backward then urban whites and non-whites. Thats why national politicans have to be rightwing enough to get those southern and midwestern votes.

Simply recognizing that you don't have a particularly high concentration of Nazis in LA and NYC, isn't some kindof class judgement on all poor white people, or even all white rural southerners.

And YKTMX, you know this, and you were totally picking a fight, so cut it out.

[Latifa]

White trash is not a social class, it's a lifestyle choice. Look at Britney Spears, she is obsenely rich and is an ambassador for white trash. A lot of people you could describe is "white trash" are very much middle class citizens.

[Xvall]

I agree with you, it is about "lifestyle" - a working class lifestyle, which some middle class comics and politicians like to snigger at - including you.

I never laughed at it. The words "white trash" and "redneck" weren't even mentioned prior to my LMAOs.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by Matthijs+Oct 17 2005, 01:34 PM--> (Matthijs @ Oct 17 2005, 01:34 PM)

Ginger Goodwin

@Oct 17 2005, 04:15 AM
This was a deliberate provocation by the NSM.
Unfortunately the rioters seem to have played into NSM's hands by burning buildings in their own neighborhod.

Exactly. As much as I am against Nazism, not only being provoked by those people but also starting to destroy other people's property was just dumb. [/b]

Were you even there, or are you just going by what you saw in the bourgeois media? What makes you think they (and who do you think "they" are anyways?) owned any of those buildings?

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by Djehuti@Oct 18 2005, 04:00 PM
More info:
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?...051015113342791



Good too see that the anti-fascist riot developed into a riot against the cops and class society. Not so good to see how media always labels rioters as criminal gangs et cetera. They also did so in New Orleans and we now thats false.

That's right. The fact of the matter is that Anti-Racist Action was there and on the front lines, along side youth, parents, grandparents; whites, Blacks, Latino, Asian, Queer, etc. all united against fascism. Sure there was some "gang" youth (and all the gangs even declared a truce for that day, now that's fucking fundemental and kewl as fuck) but the I.S.O. was there too. No one persyn or group instigated anything, the people took action in to their own hands.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by YouKnowTheyMurderedX@Oct 19 2005, 04:02 PM

I think you'll find the likes of David Duke and Nick Griffin are very bourgeois characters.

That's right. In fact, Bill White, the leader of NSM (the group that "rallied" in Toledo) is a well known slumlord in Virginia.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by bed_of_nails@Oct 21 2005, 08:58 PM
Redneck is a lifestyle, not a class. Look at the Jeff Foxworthy bunch. They proudly proclaim their redneckiness and are making a living off of it.

Not exactly. Redneks are usually considered a social-class that exists in North ameriKKKa...

I agree with Gravedigger's analysis of "White Trash"...

Hillbillies are kind of a neo-peasant class...

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by TragicClown@Oct 23 2005, 03:25 AM
....
The reality is that Nazis, as in NAZIs, not Neo-cons or Republicans or Libertarians but NAZIS, are mostly a white rural phenomenon. These aren't working class people, working class people like have jobs (thats what makes them *working* class), and live around cities. .....

That's not even true. There are quite a bit of racists/fascists/nazis coming from the working class and in urban/suburban areas. Where are you getting your information from, what do you have to back up your claims with empirical evidence?

If they don't have "jobs", what do you think they do? Sit around all day shining their jackboots? The nazis say similiar things about us (all commies are drug abusing street scum on welfare, etc.) but it means fuck all. Reality and fantasy are very different things. It's sometimes comfortable to dehumanize and alienate ourselves from the enemy, when the smart thing to do is the exact opposite; if you want to win, that is.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by Latifa@Oct 23 2005, 08:13 AM
White trash is not a social class, it's a lifestyle choice. Look at Britney Spears, she is obsenely rich and is an ambassador for white trash. A lot of people you could describe is "white trash" are very much middle class citizens.

"Trailor Trash" isn't even associated with whites only anymore.

"White trash" is not a lifestyle choice, it's a lable used to categorize lumpenproletarian and proletarian whites, usually suburban or rural but can also be urban (i.e. "white trash homie").

What you are talking about is commodification and appropriation of culture; like what was done to the hip-hop (although I don't see the connection of "white trash" to Spears, "white crap" would probably be a better name for that) and the Queer cultures/lifestyles.

This doesn't make it a lifestyle choice for everyone, except for the mostly petty-bourgeois (middle class) people who become fantasized by the exoticism of the said culture and try to take it up as their own. Those people are the consumers. The culture (and sometimes even the people) becomes the product. Sometimes the base social-class of the original culture will begin to take on more reactionary and bourgeois ways themselves (this is a hegemony) - such as the way hip-hop changed to become more and more consumable, but it's the capitalists mostly mold it once it has been consumerized, and they are the ones who make the real money.

[Comrade Marcel]

I've got to catch soem sleep right now, but tommorow I'll post the real deal on what went down in Toledo.

And yes, I was there...