The Real Cost of Zionism

[Free Palestine]

"Total daily numbers of deaths & injuries - West Bank & Gaza"

[Phalanx]

Look, I realize that Israel has brought terrible misfortunes to the Palestinians. But you can't obsess about the subject. Almost every thread of yours is about the Mideast conflict. There are bigger stories in the world, and some have a bigger global impact. Please could you lay off the subject for a little while.

[Free Palestine]

Originally posted by Chinghis Khan+--> (Chinghis Khan)But you can't obsess about the subject. [/b]

I happen to feel a special affinity for the Israeli-Palestinian crisis.

Originally posted by Chinghis Khan@
There are bigger stories in the world, and some have a bigger global impact.

I don't have to address every other issue of equal or greater detriment. Only big-shot columnists and prestigious university administrators could have such an idiotically unworkable conception of activism.

P.S. - How do you know that I ignore the behavior of the Chinese in Tibet, Russians in Chechnya, etc.? I support well intentioned efforts to isolate other oppressive regimes beyond that of Israel for your information.

Chinghis Khan

Please could you lay off the subject for a little while.

No. The Israelis now have the distinction of running the longest post-WWII occupation in the world. There is no reason why we should not start with the problem that has persisted longest and then work backwards.

Also, the subject is arguably more important for citizens of the Western nations than other contemporary crises. This is because Zionist influence spreads far beyond Israel, and now widely influences the policy makers of our own countries. Thus their actions have import beyond the Occupied Territories and potentially affect the lives of ordinary citizens of most Western nations. This particularly obvious in the case of United States. Here Zionist lobbies are extremely powerful with both Congress and the media, and the administration of George W. Bush and his neo-conservative advisers see Israel and its aggressive behavior as a model for their own policies.

[JC1]

P.S. - How do you know that I ignore the behavior of the Chinese in Tibet, Russians in Chechnya, etc.? I support well intentioned efforts to isolate other oppressive regimes beyond that of Israel for your information.

You never post about the brutalitie's of other comprador regimes.

No. The Israelis now have the distinction of running the longest post-WWII occupation in the world. There is no reason why we should not start with the problem that has persisted longest and then work backwards.

Can you say "Northern Ireland" ? "Southern korea" ? Palistine has only been occupied since 1967.

Also, the subject is arguably more important for citizens of the Western nations than other contemporary crises. This is because Zionist influence spreads far beyond Israel, and now widely influences the policy makers of our own countries. Thus their actions have import beyond the Occupied Territories and potentially affect the lives of ordinary citizens of most Western nations. This particularly obvious in the case of United States. Here Zionist lobbies are extremely powerful with both Congress and the media, and the administration of George W. Bush and his neo-conservative advisers see Israel and its aggressive behavior as a model for their own policies.

What Crap. Israel is a counrty with a debt. of 104 % of there GDP. It dosent run the media, and it don't own even a marginal portion of the capital in the west. It is a US Puppet regime ! Its a totaly un remarkable neo-colony.

[metalero]

Free palestine has all the right to post the truth about palestinian-israeli conflict, for it is one the best example of exploitation and neo-colonization. If you call yourselfes revolutionary it shouln't annoy you much this fact, or perhaps you want to talk only about more theories or some more "important" conflicts.

[Intifada]

(Chinghis Khan)

Please could you lay off the subject for a little while.

This is dumb, and akin to a capitalist telling a working-class movement to end action against their exploitation, for a while.

Shall we lay off of capitalism?

Why should we just stop raising awarness of a very important issue?

(JC1)

You never post about the brutalitie's of other comprador regimes.

He does, but that is still not a requirement of him.

Can you say "Northern Ireland" ? "Southern korea" ? Palistine has only been occupied since 1967.

True, though I would love to see how you could say such a thing to a Palestinian refugee, who has lost everything s/he ever had, and has nothing to live for.

The fact remains that the Zionists have oppressed and subjugated the Palestinian people for many decades, and this has to be put to an end. The only way it can be put to an end is if people take action against this continued aggression.

What Crap. Israel is a counrty with a debt. of 104 % of there GDP. It dosent run the media, and it don't own even a marginal portion of the capital in the west. It is a US Puppet regime ! Its a totaly un remarkable neo-colony.

Free Palestine was not stating that Israel itself is guilty of influencing the media, though it can be argued that it does influence Washington's policies. He was raising the legitimate point of how Zionist lobbies in the US have managed to divert the attention away from the oppression in Occupied Palestine.

Pro-Israel bias found in US TV news

We must combat this by giving the truth about the conflict.

[Free Palestine]

Whenever confronted with the true face of Zionism, the Zionist sycophant brigade always arrives on time to do their 'damage control.'

You never post about the brutalitie's of other comprador regimes.

Aside the fact that this nonsense simply isn't true, and aside the fact that I am by no means obligated to address every other issue of equal or greater detriment. Aside the fact that only a big-shot columnist would be expected to have such an idiotically unworkable conception of activism.

Aside those, I'm curious how you know that I am not actively engaged in various other awareness-raising activities, ranging from speaking at public venues to participating in peaceful rallies and marches, and perhaps more importantly maintaining dialogue with friends and extending to them the moral support and solidarity with those oppressed (besides the Palestinians) in desperate need? You must be stalking me to be able to make this absurd claim.

It dosent run the media, and it don't own even a marginal portion of the capital in the west. It is a US Puppet regime!

Do you deny the power and influence of AIPAC? Do you deny the overt bias of US foreign policy towards Israel? Of the mass media? Do you deny there exist many wealthy and influential Jewish citizens in the US who lobby Congress and powerful politicians in support of Israel? Do you deny many politicians and media moguls are themselves Jewish? I'd be interested in your response.

Its a totaly un remarkable neo-colony.

Total hogwash.

[viva le revolution]

The israeli-palestinian conflict is potentially the most explosive issue in the world today. Ignoring it would be stupidity.

[Noah]

Free Palestine can post only about Palestine if he wishes to, that's totally upto him, the way I see it is that he is educating me about what's going on there and I am grateful for that.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Whenever confronted with the true face of Zionism, the Zionist sycophant brigade always arrives on time to do their 'damage control.'

Hang on a minute, Chinghis Khan was just saying it would be nice if you contributed something else and didn't raise this issue quite as much. Calling him a "Zionist sycophant", is a pretty rank and reactionary statement.

Also does it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, some Jews are not Zionists and that not every action taken by the Jewish race, is a direct promotion of Zionism?

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Armchair.Socialism.@Oct 4 2005, 09:55 PM

Whenever confronted with the true face of Zionism, the Zionist sycophant brigade always arrives on time to do their 'damage control.'

Hang on a minute, Chinghis Khan was just saying it would be nice if you contributed something else and didn't raise this issue quite as much. Calling him a "Zionist sycophant", is a pretty rank and reactionary statement.

Also does it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, some Jews are not Zionists and that not every action taken by the Jewish race, is a direct promotion of Zionism?

Chinghis Khan stated that Free Palestine should "lay off the subject for a while."

Why should he?

I can understand why FP then stated that "Whenever confronted with the true face of Zionism, the Zionist sycophant brigade always arrives on time to do their 'damage control.'"

Moreover, FP has never assumed that all Jews are Zionists.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Chinghis Khan stated that Free Palestine should "lay off the subject for a while."

He did. However, in my opinion, Chinghis Khan did not mean this in a nasty manner. He just said that Free Palestine "can't obsess about the subject", and that maybe he needed a bit of diversity in his politics.

Why should he?

He shouldn't. Its up to him to decide what he wants to discuss.

I can understand why FP then stated that "Whenever confronted with the true face of Zionism, the Zionist sycophant brigade always arrives on time to do their 'damage control.'"

I can't understand how Chinghis Khan's post, or any of the other posts, warranted such a hostile and derogatory response.

Moreover, FP has never assumed that all Jews are Zionists.

He seems to imply, every action taken by Jews with regards politics, is about Israeli dominance.

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

zionism is the belief that there should be a Jewish homeland, right? If that's so, then I'm a Zionist. I don't believe in throwing people out of their land just so you can have your own however. I think, mainly, that Israel and Palestine are so fucked up that you really can't trust anything from anyone down there, meaning why bother supporting either? Both have their reactionaries making them look bad.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by Free Palestine@Oct 4 2005, 07:09 PM
Whenever confronted with the true face of Zionism, the Zionist sycophant brigade always arrives on time to do their 'damage control.'

You honestly think I sympathize with the Zionists? I just wanted to make the point that all of your topics are about the Mideast. I wasn't flaming you in any way nor did I try to offend you. I would never think of calling you a terrorist or any of that bullshit, so why should you say things like that to me?

The Palestinians have their full right to have independence, and Israel is very xenophobic in its views. But I do not support any side of the conflict. This does not make me a Zionist, nor does it allow myself to be called one.

[Free Palestine]

Originally posted by HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen@Oct 4 2005, 10:31 PM
zionism is the belief that there should be a Jewish homeland, right? If that's so, then I'm a Zionist. I don't believe in throwing people out of their land just so you can have your own however. I think, mainly, that Israel and Palestine are so fucked up that you really can't trust anything from anyone down there, meaning why bother supporting either? Both have their reactionaries making them look bad.

Do you even know what Zionism is? The official goal of Zionism has always been the complete explusion of all Arabs from Israel. It is indeed a racist ideology since its purpose is to create a Jewish majority in Palestine. That's why the Jews have been illegally placing settlements in land that isn't legally part of Israel. If you don't believe me go read the work by Zionists yourself, specifically Explusion of the Palestinians, which is based on Israel's own declassified government documents.

Also does it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, some Jews are not Zionists..

Care to show me where I said that? I've never had such delusions so I'm uncertain why you would say such a thing. I stand in solidarity with more than 1,300 Israeli 'refuseniks' who have stated openly, at the risk of jail time, that they refuse to serve Israel’s occupation of Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem and commit war crimes and flagrant breaches of international law.

and that not every action taken by the Jewish race, is a direct promotion of Zionism?

Want to show me where I said that? You have a habit of putting words in people's mouths.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected]@Oct 5 2005, 12:39 AM
his name IS free palestine, so i guess you can pretty much predict on what subject matter he cares about the most, and all you're arguing about is trivial matters, if he wants to rant about palestinian matters, let him god dammit.

FREE PALESTINE!

All I was trying to say was that it isn't healthy to obsess on one thing only.

[rioters bloc]

i've seen his posts about other stuff

besides, everyone has a certain cause that they're more into

[Amusing Scrotum]

Care to show me where I said that? I've never had such delusions so I'm uncertain why you would say such a thing. I stand in solidarity with more than 1,300 Israeli 'refuseniks' who have stated openly, at the risk of jail time, that they refuse to serve Israel’s occupation of Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem and commit war crimes and flagrant breaches of international law.

Maybe I phrased my point incorrectly. I should have said that not all Israelis' or pro Israel people, are Zionists. You see, it is my opinion, that while Zionism is a horrible ideology, there should be a clear distinction between those we call Zionists and the people that are just in favour of a Jewish state.

[JC1]

Do you even know what Zionism is?

Jewish Natinol liberation.

The official goal of Zionism has always been the complete explusion of all Arabs from Israel.

Straight up false. The Zionist movement at one point was planing on settling in uganda. Zionism is not some anti-arab conspiracy.

It is indeed a racist ideology since its purpose is to create a Jewish majority in Palestine.

There already is a Jewish majorit in palistine, dumbass.

Do you deny the power and influence of AIPAC?

Yep. Material condition's move history, not "lobbying". US Imperialism has a stake in Israel.

Do you deny the overt bias of US foreign policy towards Israel?

Nope. But this is not becuase of "Jewish Lobby's", but becuase of a US intrest in controling Israel as a reginol enforcer and a neo-colony.

Do you deny there exist many wealthy and influential Jewish citizens in the US who lobby Congress and powerful politicians in support of Israel?

There is a few, im sure, but there just trying to get US imperialist's to do sothing they already plan on doing, suppourting there comprador's.

Do you deny many politicians and media moguls are themselves Jewish?

There may be a few, but once again, there influence is minute and overblown.