Thread: Freedom vs. the Free Market

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  1. #1
    Warren Peace
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    The market is free, the people aren’t

    “Free market” has a nice ring to it. It creates images in our heads of democracy and liberty. It sounds like something people should support. What does it really mean?

    “Free market” means that the wealthy, ruling class controls the “market” through corporations. It means that those corporations are “free” to do what ever they want, such as destroying the environment and exploiting workers.

    Under the free market, the ruling class didn’t get rich by working hard; they got rich by exploiting other people’s hard work. As long as the free market exists, they will only get richer, while the workers and oppressed people of the world suffer more and more under lawless corporations.

    A great example of this is the Coca-Cola Corporation. Coke has its bottling plants in the war-torn Latin American nation of Colombia. To protect and serve the corporation’s interests, Coke has a hired, armed paramilitary in Colombia. Coke uses their paramilitary to violently crush labor unions. Hundreds of bottling workers who joined unions have been abducted and tortured by the paramilitary. The paramilitary has also murdered several union leaders. The Coke executives in the US, who are behind the paramilitary’s paychecks, have said they are indifferent to this. This corporate abuse of human rights is all thanks to our good friend, the “free market”.

    “Free market” has nothing to do with “freedom”. The two forces are enemies in the global struggle between the working class and the class enemy, between the east wind and the west wind. Freedom for the market means slavery for the workers. It is no more a good thing for the market to be “free” than it is for serial killers to get “free” from their prisons.

    Free market capitalism causes discrimination, poverty, and war

    The free market is a major part of capitalism. It separates the people into classes, leading to idiotic prejudice and discrimination. This includes racism, ageism, and sexism. As long as the people are divided under capitalism, these things will never disappear.

    The capitalist machine is the culprit of global poverty. The ruling class hordes the wealth and exploits the people of the world through corporations. Nike, for example, buys up jobs in Asia and forces people to make shoes for 50 cents a day. These workers are among the 1.2 billion people, that’s 1 in every 5 on Earth, who survive on less than $1 a day.

    Over 20 years ago, 570 million people suffered chronic hunger and had no access to health care services. As Western corporations buy up cheap labor overseas, that number has risen to 800 million today. Every 60 seconds, 21 children die from preventable illness. That’s 31,000 a day, 10 million a year.

    Even in the US, at the heart of these corporations, poverty is a problem. The elite 1% of the population hordes 36% of the wealth, while 36 million people live bellow the poverty line. 43 million have no health care. 60 million people are illiterate. Women still earn only 73% of what men earn at equal jobs.

    Because the ruling class hordes most of the wealth while others starve, a free market cannot support itself. Because a free market cannot support itself, it has to grow and cause damage. This leads to imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism. Imperialist countries use war and domination to spread their market and increase their power.

    The US is the leading imperialist country. The US fulfills it’s greed in every way possible, at every opportunity, at every turn. Every American power grab and scheme leaves death and destruction in its wake. The US expands the American market with organizations like the FTAA, with conquests like the War on Iraq, and by funding dictatorships, torture, and massacres from Israel to Uzbekistan to Nepal to the Philippines.

    Social revolution for social democracy

    If all this wealth was owned and controlled democratically, all people in the world could have plenty of food and water, and be immersed in technology and culture. However, the ruling class will not give up their power without a fight.

    That is why we leftists: communists, anarchists, and social democrats, support revolution against capitalism. That is why we know we cannot fix the world’s problems through voting. The only “democracy” under capitalism is an election where the people choose one millionaire or another, and both serve the ruling class.

    To get revolutionary change, we must take revolutionary action! To get socialism, we must launch a social revolution! We must unite into a revolutionary front, and organize and arm the masses of youth and workers. We must overthrow the reactionary dictatorships in third world countries, amassing an army as we march forward. Then, when our numbers have grown enough, we will return to our old and corrupted country. We will carry the revolution back to America. We will seize control of our schools and workplaces! We will strike from the shadows and crush the lackeys of the class enemy! We will smash the reactionary government and ruling class, and we will light the fire of true democracy!
  2. #2
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    ... quite so, comrade.

    may i suggest reading "world on fire" by amy chua, its about how exporting free-market "democracy" breeds ethinic tensions and hatred. chua isnt a communist, but the book essentially backs up all the claims make in this thread, especially the "Free market capitalism causes discrimination, poverty, and war" thing.
  3. #3
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    I will join your army comrade. We will destroy tha cappies!!!!!!!!
  4. #4
    Guest_Erik
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    Hey, I was wondering where you got your info on the Coca Cola company hiring paramilitary? Sorry if i'm a bit of a skeptic but I just won't to know the facts, thanks a lot.

    Peace - Erik

    [email protected]
  5. #5
    Warren Peace
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    Hey, I was wondering where you got your info on the Coca Cola company hiring paramilitary? Sorry if i'm a bit of a skeptic but I just won't to know the facts, thanks a lot.
    Check out Campaign to Stop Killer Coke, the link is in my signature. It's the leading site for boycotts against the Coca-Cola Corporation that are going on all around us. In major universities, youth are driving out these fascists and replacing their drinks with alternatives, like Pepsi.

    There is nothing wrong with being skeptical, comrade. If there was no skepticism, all of us revolutionaries would be dumbass capitalists and conformists.

    I will join your army comrade. We will destroy tha cappies!!!!!!!!
    Thanks, comrade. My plan is to follow the styles of revolution used by Fidel Catsro and Fusako Shigenobu. After I graduate high school and get some college in, I'll gather around 50 or more revolutionaries. We'll do guerilla training, get either our own boat or a convoy of cars, as well as weapons, go to a small Latin American country where there is already instability and violence, then overthrow the reactionary government there. We'll be an international guerilla group like Shigenobu's JRA. After fighting in the third world, we'll hopefully return to the US with a much larger army. This will save us the trouble of having to gather a large army in the US before starting revolution.

    Obviously this is a very early plan and I might have to make some adjustments, but it will go something like this. Stay in touch. :hammer:

    may i suggest reading "world on fire" by amy chua
    I might check it out, thanks.
  6. #6
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    Yes I agree. Revolution is necessary to end poverty, war, and oppression--and the need to create a new society dedicated to justice and freedom.
    To be silent in these times of turmoil and social injustice is almost as harmful as the injustice itself.
    I too will join the army Comrade.
    "Where there is oppression, there is resistance"---MAO.

    "You can kill the revolutionary, but you cannot kill the revolution"----Rage.

    "There will be a victorious revolution in the United States before a victorious counterrevolution in Cuba----Fidel Castro.
  7. #7
    Denise
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    I am having great trouble knowing all I know about the Free Market. Frankley, I am tired of complaining and feeling so helpless. Its time, but don't you think we will all be killed, CIA style?
  8. #8
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    yup. lets do it.
  9. #9
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    That's right. You can't fix problems through 'representatives.' You have to do it yourself.

    If we're killed, we'll be killed for a good cause, yes? I know that I would gladly give my life for the cause of TRUE freedom (none of that 'god and country' bullshit - I'm talking about the real thing).


    Andrew
    Fuck world trade.




    Hasta la Victoria Siempre!
  10. #10
    justagirl
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    Hey,
    I agree that most middle class and well to do north americans are part of a corrupt and far from perfect capitalist/consumer system whose basis is exlpoiting poor working people. In fact, I happen to be one.

    But

    Most of them are unaware of how complicity to this system is weaved into the very fibre of their lives, including schooling, university opportunities, recreational activities (i.e going out dancing/drinking/movies etc..), family life, everything. Most of these people are nice people, who have no intention of hurting anyone. And even once they are aware, it is very difficult to change ones lifestyle, especially if there is no viable alternative and you have a family to support and ensure success for. What is your alternative for the millions and millions of north americans/ europeans/ austrailians and other relativly wealthy people and nations whose life/hapiness and wellbeing is completly dependant on the world "free market"?
    Is it okay for any one of these people to be killed in some violent revolution?
    Also, can you name one example where there has been a communist revolution that was not also followed by a corrupt regime, or totalitarianism, suppression of the freedom of speech and mass exploitation?

    Most of the recent strides in human rights have not been made by violent revolutionaries of coups. THey have been made by Networked organizations like Doctors Without Borders, and lobbyists who work within the capitalist system. They raise awarness, and put socila pressure on companies like Nike ( ie: michael moore). Becuase of these peaceful organizaztions and people, empowered by the media, issues like human rights and the environment are at least put on the tables of those people ( governments and wealthy people) who can actually make a big difference. I think this is the way to go. The only problem is, there needs to be more of it.

    Violent revolution has never worked.
  11. #11
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    Also, can you name one example where there has been a communist revolution that was not also followed by a corrupt regime, or totalitarianism, suppression of the freedom of speech and mass exploitation?
    Well, no, but the Spanish revolution comes close if you put the "communist" in quotes: It wasn't the actual leading revolutionairies (anarchists and some groups of marxists) who set up that following fascist regime. They just happened to lose a civil war against Franco, and the Stalinist "communist party" was quite counter-revolutionary too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_civil_war
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain


    Violent revolution has never worked.
    A revolution is unlikely to be unviolent. What matters is who initiates the use of force. The revolutionaries must not be the one at the cost of losing public support (but of course, if the capitalists still control the media at that time, they will make it seem so).
    (-9.12, -8.31)
  12. #12
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    Originally posted by justagirl@Aug 27 2005, 11:46 PM
    Violent revolution has never worked.
    In converting a government's style, yes it has.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.10

    "A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes."
    -Gotthold Ephraim Lessing

    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority it is time to pause and reflect."
    -Mark Twain
  13. #13
    Matt Green
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    Dying for something you believe in is worth it, especially when the odds are against you. Capatilism has sent the world into turmiol. It IS the cause of poverty, expliotation and enviromental instability. A capatalist world means in some place or another someone is being shit on by the social elite. People need to be made aware of the way the current system is working and with the media playing the biggest part in social awarness you will have to attack here. We have to gather every person sat in an armchair preaching about how it's all unfair, every person who at one time in the past wanted to make these changes but ened up worrying to much about how they will pay for there next months rent and the fire of rebellion burnt out. We have to have a plan for the future and the direction in which we want it to go if we had a say in the matter. Democracy is a joke. Change is needed, otherwise everyone can kiss goodbye to their mercadeis benz or piccasi print or their precious jacob watches. Revoloution with planning is the way we will overthrow capitalism. That is the truth
  14. #14
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    Also, can you name one example where there has been a communist revolution that was not also followed by a corrupt regime, or totalitarianism, suppression of the freedom of speech and mass exploitation?
    Just one? Cuba.
    "Getting a job, finding a mate, having a place to live, finding a creative outlet. Life is a war of attrition. You have to stay active on all fronts. It's one thing after another. I've tried to control a chaotic universe. And it's a losing battle. But I can't let go. I've tried, but I can't." - Harvey Pekar


  15. #15
    Alex
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    Some nice ideas, but a little unrealistic. You forget where capitalism has taken us from. Under the feudal systems that are most similar to the campments suggested by most socialists the average lifespan even in the UK was 35. great.

    Where do you think the health service, education system and benefits all come from without sustained economic growth?

    I agree with you on the many problems we have, exploitation and destruction of the environment. However I believe that a certain degree of this is inevitable as in any system powermad bastards can always rise to the top.

    Look at Russia, China, any of these counties and see what happens when power is handed to the state.

    I agree change is needed, but I think eradication of capitalism is shortsighted, and I think many of you ignore the benefits it has brung, and in fact you continue to use them every day.

    We need a capitalist system to sustain this economic growth, but a system that is more rigorous in holding people to justice, and a system where politicians are more accountable for their actions.

    Capitalism is a power. Like all powers, it can be used for good, or for evil. In its nature itself it is neither good nor evil.

    I believe capitalism can do good things if the right people are in power, and like you, I agree that we have some pretty corrupt bastards in power.

    Yes, reform is needed, but I believe capitalism can do great things in this reform.

    Its easy to forget how far we have come, the very idea of even caring about people in other countries was a concept alien to us 100 years ago, but thanks to the standards of living we all now enjoy, we are capable of seeing beyond our needs, and realising we can help others.

    We have a long, long way to go, but we have come a long way, and we owe a good part of that to capitalism. The machine just needs a big, big overhaul.
  16. #16
    2Poor2BeACapitalist
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    in reading your a article, i was impressed by your passion for the fight against capitalism. but theres several things in the original post and in some of the responces (jokes not withstanding) that bothered me. while you did raise some good points about corporations, you were pretty vague on your arguements about capitalism. while i personally say FUCK capitalism and the underlying greed that is inherent to its success;but blaming sexim, fascism, and racism on capitalism seems quite a stretch (all these things existed before capitalism became widespread and accepted, i believe). capitalism may indeed help create a greater abundance of these evils in society, but i dont know that for sure, and u didnt specifically prove it to me either. But you are right about how capitalism in time concentrates the wealth and resouces of a nation and in time the world into the hands of a few super elite, making the common man impoverished. capitalism also (like all other systems before it) breeds classism and class conflict (rich vs poor, educated vs uneducated, employer vs employee). these are all things that Marx (the forefather of socialism and communism) said against capitalism before (if u dont know his shit, take the time to read it, its complex but crazy ill). and theres one thing no one every realizes about capitalism, besides the inhuman abuses done to other peoples for the almighty dollar, there is also the horrible abuses of nature and the planet as a whole done for the dollar. basically for capitalism to function, ever more resources are used to create consumer goods, to make a profit, even useless shit like your barbie, and guccie bags, and nikes. basically captalism fucks the environment bad, and abuses the environment ever more as time passes, because to make money, u make (what u want to sell) cheaply, and that always means u make more of it (economies of scale)
    basically capitalism is gonna fuck the world up so bad, that a human being cant survive wait its already happened look at all the climbing rates of cancer and illnesses throughout the world. anyways i have to run, say something later about violent revolutions to make progress.... till then hasta la victoria siempre!
  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Guest_Erik@Aug 22 2005, 07:01 AM
    Hey, I was wondering where you got your info on the Coca Cola company hiring paramilitary? Sorry if i'm a bit of a skeptic but I just won't to know the facts, thanks a lot.

    Peace - Erik

    [email protected]
    hope you checked out revolt now's link


    i personally know two people who were kidnapped and tortured by coca-cola


    its not pretty
    this post was produced on stolen land.

    to your tourist mentality, we're still the natives
    you're multicultural - but we're anti-racist!

    your heart is a muscle the size of your fist.
    keep loving. keep fighting.
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    "Getting a job, finding a mate, having a place to live, finding a creative outlet. Life is a war of attrition. You have to stay active on all fronts. It's one thing after another. I've tried to control a chaotic universe. And it's a losing battle. But I can't let go. I've tried, but I can't." - Harvey Pekar


  19. #19
    Alex
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    Am I going to receive any challenges to my previous post like I was hoping? Come on, give me some debate!
  20. #20
    Warren Peace
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    If you insist.

    Under the feudal systems that are most similar to the campments suggested by most socialists the average lifespan even in the UK was 35.
    Socialism and feudalism have nothing in common. Anyone who suggests a feudal system is no socialist.

    Feudalism is a lot like capitalism. As in capitalism, the ruling class controls the economy and can do whatever they want. The only difference is that in feudalism there is no law. Warlords are free to conquer and enslave. Bandits kill and loot unchecked. The working class lives in their own shit.

    This has nothing do with socialism, a peacefull system where all people control the economy through democracy.

    Where do you think the health service, education system and benefits all come from without sustained economic growth?
    Nowhere, so it's a good thing socialism provides all those things. Take a look at Cuba.

    Capitalism is a power. Like all powers, it can be used for good, or for evil. In its nature itself it is neither good nor evil.
    There is no true good and evil, only perspective. Morality is a point of view. Opposites cannot exist without each other.

    There are, however, two opposing forces in the world. They are the east wind and the west wind. The working class and the class enemy. The revolutionaries and the reactionaries. Us and them.


    I believe capitalism can do good things if the right people are in power, and like you, I agree that we have some pretty corrupt bastards in power.

    Yes, reform is needed, but I believe capitalism can do great things in this reform.
    It's good you've realized there are corrupt bastards in power. Now take the next step. Realize that the capitalist machine put these corrupt bastards in power. Realize that these corrupt bastards will not give up their power without a fight. Revoltion and a whole new social system is needed. The old and corrupted system cannot be fixed, it must be burned away by the fire of revolution.


    The machine just needs a big, big overhaul.
    It needs to be shut down. It needs to be replaced with a new machine, a revolutionary machine, a machine that serves the people.

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