The Battle of Cable Street

[spartan]

It should be noted that the AA gunner who shot Balbo down was a fellow Italian. Also the German 88mm flak gun was a very popular and much respected (and feared i might add) artillery piece so the Italians using a great weapon which was made by their allies (who usually share their weapons) is hardly surprising and does not prove that this is an assassination. Nor is it surprising that the Gestapo had a file on Balbo (they had files on almost all moderate Fascists and National Socialists because of their "defeatist" attitudes) because Balbo was against the newly imposed racial laws passed in Italy and he also said that Italy would have been better off siding with the British! But the fact remains that Balbo was enough of a Fascist and military man (and a bloody good one at that i might add and a huge loss for the Italians which is another reason for the Axis not to asassinate him) not to to do anything "stupid" against a government that he firmly believed in. And hell Balbo being listed as a "possible threat" by the Gestapo is yet more evidence of German stupidness during the war! Surely the Germans like everybody else could see that Mussolini with his shit leadership was more of a threat to Germany than Balbo ever could be

[Pia Fidelis]

Originally posted by spartan@September 16, 2007 02:29 pm
It should be noted that the AA gunner who shot Balbo down was a fellow Italian. Also the German 88mm flak gun was a very popular and much respected (and feared i might add) artillery piece so the Italians using a great weapon which was made by their allies (who usually share their weapons) is hardly surprising and does not prove that this is an assassination. Nor is it surprising that the Gestapo had a file on Balbo (they had files on almost all moderate Fascists and National Socialists because of their "defeatist" attitudes) because Balbo was against the newly imposed racial laws passed in Italy and he also said that Italy would have been better off siding with the British! But the fact remains that Balbo was enough of a Fascist and military man (and a bloody good one at that i might add and a huge loss for the Italians which is another reason for the Axis not to asassinate him) not to to do anything "stupid" against a government that he firmly believed in. And hell Balbo being listed as a "possible threat" by the Gestapo is yet more evidence of German stupidness during the war! Surely the Germans like everybody else could see that Mussolini with his shit leadership was more of a threat to Germany than Balbo ever could be

It is refreshing to see how well read you are on the subject, and I commend you on it. I agree with you on many points, but I cannot agree that Balbo was not assassinated. But, alas, this discussion could be had until both of our fingers fall off. There are not too many English-Language books that properly address the grounds for his assassination, so it would be difficult for me to present you with any texts arguing my side.

But, there are some points I would like to make in regards to what you said. Firstly, the 88 was used exclusively by German units, and, in the context of Italy, this is still true. Italian divisions were forbidden from using any German heavy equipment. Also, when it comes to the gunner who claims to have shot down Balbo, there are many texts that discredit his whereabouts at the time of the incident, there are many inaccuracies in what he describes as having happened, and that there are no surviving members of the unit (of which there no documentation to prove that he was part of) to verify his story - which has lead many to conclude that he is either (1) lying or (2) mistaken. Also, the file the Gestapo had on Signor Balbo was not simply that he was an anti-National Socialist and could possibly cause some problems, he was actually suspected by both German and Italian secret police to have been leading an underground movement in Libya to separate from Italy, set up a proper Italian-in-exile government, and join the side of the British. Now, it has been debated to no end whether this was probable or not (I personally think it was), but the fact remains that he was seen as an anti-National Socialist revolutionary. Mussolini himself refused to attend Balbo's funeral, and also refused to send personal condolences to the family of his close friend, which is suspicious.

Most importantly though, I think you are giving the National Socialists too much credit in thinking they would rather keep with them an important and beneficial military leader who opposed the ideology and refused direct (and nonsensical) orders from above then not. Rommel and Guderian are prime examples of this idiocy.

I have, and always will have, the utmost regard for Balbo - he was truly a man of virtue and revolutionary spirit. Though I am sure we would not have gotten along much.