The "Asshole of the Week" thread in the OI is doing a good job explaining this issue. Have you checked that thread?
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I know this has been discussed in the politics board, but I kinda missed that debate and thought that i'd start a new one here.
I'm thinking about the recent London attacks here. I'm most interested to know what people think about what caused these attacks. It it the war in Iraq, or is it something a lot deeper?
The "Asshole of the Week" thread in the OI is doing a good job explaining this issue. Have you checked that thread?
[FONT=Georgia]Abajo y a la izquierda esta el coraz[/FONT][FONT=Georgia]ón.[/FONT]
What caused the attack was alienation.
In England (as almost everywhere else) alienation is a big part of social degeneration into violence. Once someone is set into a sub-category, or once they set others in sub-categories, the disenfranchised feelings toward human beings begins to degenerate to violence.
He who was previously the money-owner now strides out in front as a capitalist; the possessor of labour-power follows as his worker. The one smirks self-importantly and is intent on business; the other is timid and holds back, like someone who has brought his own hide to market and now has nothing else to expect but - a good tanning. - Karl Marx, Capital Volume I
Well judging by the views of an Islamic Fundamentalist / fundamentalist sympathiser (I don't know which), the reason why people attack is because of Imperialism.
It is hardly surprising that Muslims who have been alienated from society (including mainstream Islam) want to attack the countries that are killing thousands of innocent Muslims in Palestine and Iraq, amd countless other countries.
Tony Blair seems to be the only person in this country that can't see this.
Metal up your ass
I read the thread in the OI and it seems that most people place the blame on the war in Iraq. I agree more with Clarkist is saying: alienation.
Remember that these terrorists were westerners. They were affected by conditions in place in the west - not Iraq, Palestine, etc. This new islamic terrorism is, i think, a product of western society itself.
Racism, alienation and foreign policy. Oh, and reactionery theology.
Since, according to their fantasy, the relationships of men, all their doings, their chains and their limitations are products of their consciousness, the Young Hegelians logically put to men the moral postulate of exchanging their present consciousness for human, critical or egoistic consciousness, and thus of removing their limitations. This demand to change consciousness amounts to a demand to interpret reality in another way, i.e. to recognise it by means of another interpretation. The Young-Hegelian ideologists, in spite of their allegedly "world-shattering" statements, are the staunchest conservatives.
Karl Marx
Fareed Zakaria explained that because Muslims in England may not be well integrated or well assimilated, fundementalism has so much more appeal to them as apposed to a North American Muslim. In America and Canada we see the Muslims doing very well as far as average income, nice homes and quality jobs but in Europe they seem to be doing somewhat less well.
Also because Islam doesnt have a Pope, there is no one who can simply discredit an Emam who is a radical. However, now we see that in the middle east, fundementalism has much less appeal to people, in places like Banlgedesh where theyre are elections , the fundamentalists do very poorly, usualy less than 5% because most people want good government.
What has been suggested is that Islams more well know leaders can get together and speak out against terrorism so that it will hopefuly discourage Muslims from joining groups like Al Quieda.
<span style=\'color:blue\'>two convicts stare from prison bars, one saw mud, the other...stars</span>
Red Youth
I believe I saw an interview with him on the Daily Show. Funny show. Smart guy.
It is basically alienation here that is causing Muslim fundementalists to turn violent. Alienation will always be the problem with violence, and it is alienation that we must strive to rid.
To keep people from being alienated, we must create a society with true individualism, and not capitalist style individualism.
Capitalism puts people in rank & file, instead of having everyone do what they want. In this way, capitalism is, in a way, a major cause of the attacks. However, reactionary attacks do nothing to forward any kind of action against capitalism.
In fact, the terrorist attacks are mainly against capitalism, for a return to strict theocracy. Instead of the people fighting for something while will destroy alienation, they fight for something MUCH worse than England's capitalism.
He who was previously the money-owner now strides out in front as a capitalist; the possessor of labour-power follows as his worker. The one smirks self-importantly and is intent on business; the other is timid and holds back, like someone who has brought his own hide to market and now has nothing else to expect but - a good tanning. - Karl Marx, Capital Volume I
[QUOTE]To keep people from being alienated, we must dreate a society with true individualism, and not capitalist style individualism.
Now, hey im all for individualism but c'mon.... Too often do we just blame capitalism. This has nothing to do with capitalism, its about people who have been left behind by society. An emmigrant who is being harrassed in the streets because he takes all the jobs where as he cant even feed his family is becoming the new Muslim emmigration story.
Also, its the fundementalist ideal thats inspiring these things and holding them together is a loss of hope, not capitalism.
<span style=\'color:blue\'>two convicts stare from prison bars, one saw mud, the other...stars</span>
Red Youth
The War in Iraq does have a lot to do with it; intricate terrorist organizations have found European Muslims among their main sympathesizers - whether by getting funds or recruits - because of their war and (as mentioned) their sense of alienation and their need to act. The alienation is not only caused by the war, but also the post-9/11 and post-Madrid suspicion of Islamic extremism, not only felt on a local level, but also internationally in Abu Graihb and Gitmo. Hence, to the wave of extremists, it probably appears to them (rightfully so) that the Wesr have no trust or tolerance for Islam; ironic that this should only cause extremism.
- HP
