Overpopulation

[KC]

This is a problem that I have thought about a lot lately and I can't figure out how to solve it.

When people are happy and comfortable, they tend to have more children than when they are unhappy and/or uncomfortable. If communism offers a perfect/near-perfect society, then people will be happy and comfortable and will procreate more. The growing population will have to be fed with more food, which will mean putting more room aside for completing such a task. The new generation will be in the same position as their parents and will procreate more. This will repeat itself until there is overpopulation.

How do we solve this problem?

[coda]

all solved with good solid communist education, then.... people will have sex more, but will procreate less.

[Xvall]

People won't "procreate more" if we sterilize a good deal of the population. That seems to be a effective way of ensuring that the population stays low.

[KC]

People won't "procreate more" if we sterilize a good deal of the population. That seems to be a effective way of ensuring that the population stays low.

I hope you're joking.

all solved with good solid communist education, then.... people will have sex more, but will procreate less.

I never even thought of that. Good idea.

[Xvall]

I hope you're joking.

I wasn't. Although I understand that mass sterilization wouldn't be something that a society as a whole would willingly do - I would, if it were within my power.

[KC]

Then the suggestion isn't really relevant.

[Xvall]

I'm just saying: It's a solution, though not a very desireable one by most people's standards.

[MysticArcher]

When people are happy and comfortable, they tend to have more children than when they are unhappy and/or uncomfortable.

Actually, as the level of technology improves birth rates go down, way down. Mostly it's the improvement in contraceptives, but it's also economic; having more kids makes sense when you're a poor farmer who needs the labor power they'd provide, or if you're an 19th century factory worker who'd need the extra money sending your kid to a factory would make.

But we don't have such situations. In fact population is declining in the US enough that we have fewer people taking care of the increasingly larger population of old people (the so called "graying of America" and it's associated problems).

As said before mostly it'll just be better sex ed, more easily available contraceptives and whatever other advances medecine makes will keep a balanced population.

[JustinG]

Hah. You cant just sterilize people. That would be awefully totalitarian...

If overpopulation becomes a mounting problem after a revolution is acheived, than hopefully the people will decide what they'de like to do about it.

If they decide to sterilize, then alright. I doubt such would happen, however.

[Dante]

I do not think that overpopulation will be too much of a problem under socailism. Lazars original post is based on an incorrect judgement IMHO, that people have kids because they 'are happy or more content'. In reality, as previous posters pointed out people have a lot of kids because of bad education (religion telling you to have a big family) and poverty. More educated and middle class famalies tend to have fewer children because they can make that informed choice. Capitalism denies that choice to most of the planet.

But birth rates are falling in the west. I know in the UK we have a ticking time bomb of an aging population and not enough young people to take care of them (i.e. capitalism needs young women to take care of the elderly within the family for free, so it can cut back on state provision of care). The UN says we will have to import over 1 million workers by 2020 in order to make up for the short fall!

[redstar2000]

It's been noticed by the people that study this sort of thing that the more education that women acquire, the fewer children they have.

This inverse relationship between female education and fecundity appears to hold in all countries at all levels of development.

That is, even in countries where the growth rate is very high, a literate female will nevertheless have fewer children than her illiterate counterpart.

The only reason that population continues to grow in the "western" countries is immigration -- legal and illegal. I expect that to continue for a very long time to come.

[Xvall]

Hah. You cant just sterilize people. That would be awefully totalitarian...

It would really be more along the lines of rogue terrorism. Something akin to drugging people without their consent. Non-fatal, but undesirable by the victims.

[novemba]

I like my sperm the way they are thank you.

PS, overpopulation is a joke. We're probably taking up 1/25 of the earths space, if that...

[Michael De Panama]

Did You Know?

The whole world's population could fit in the state of Texas...Amazing as it may seem, the entire population of the world can be housed in the U.S. state of Texas — and very comfortably indeed, with each person enjoying a living far in excess of that now available to all but the most wealthy.

Consider these facts: The land area of Texas is some 262,000 square miles* and current UN estimates of the world's population (for 12 October 1999) are about 6 billion.** By converting square miles to square feet — remember to multiply by 5,280 feet per mile twice — and dividing by the world's population, one readily finds that there are more than 1,217 square feet per capita.

A family of 5 would thus occupy more than 6,085 square feet of living space. Even in Texas, that's a mansion.

The concept of overpopulation is a great method of attaining control over people.

Although, for other reasons, I feel that it would be an extraordinarily positive thing if a good 2/3 of mankind was killed off.

[Severian]

Originally posted by Dante@Jul 25 2005, 03:57 AM
But birth rates are falling in the west.

And everywhere else. Rates of population growth are slowing from Mexico to India, due to urbanization, proletarianization, and rising education levels.

[Xvall]

I like my sperm the way they are thank you.

I don't.

PS, overpopulation is a joke. We're probably taking up 1/25 of the earths space, if that...

Overpopulation is not about space and it never was. Overpopulation is about our carrying capacity. The problem is not that another 5 billion people won't fit on our planet, the problem is that human societies, which are at this point, completely dependent on technology for it's vital resources, will be incapable of feeding them.

[Dante]

Sorry Drake, I think your arguments are terribly reactionary! Overpopulation is a right wing myth. It is used against people in Africa and India because they are 'too poor' and 'irresponsible' to have so many children. As Michael De Panamas post showed, the planet can afford to fit loads more people on, but it is a question of distribution of people and resources so that our productive capacity can best feed, clothe and educate everyone on the planet.

Any talk of 'sterilisation' or wiping out 2/3rds of the human life on this planet is frankly, idiotic and disgusting. Considering the Nazis exterminated millions of people for ideological reasons I think any posters on this boards that argue a similar thing should be careful they do not stray over the line.

[h&s]

Originally posted by necro_oner@Jul 26 2005, 12:56 AM
PS, overpopulation is a joke. We're probably taking up 1/25 of the earths space, if that...

That has nothing to do with overpopulation.
Overpopulation is a state in which the population is too large to make the best use of the available resources meaning that quality of life is lower than what it could be.

[Dante]

There is enough food produced globally to fee 4X our current population. Under a planned economy not ruled by market madness we could feed clothe, educate and house every person on the planet adequatly + many more.

[KC]

Any talk of 'sterilisation' or wiping out 2/3rds of the human life on this planet is frankly, idiotic and disgusting. Considering the Nazis exterminated millions of people for ideological reasons I think any posters on this boards that argue a similar thing should be careful they do not stray over the line.

I think he was just throwing it out there as a possible, but improbable solution.