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If a nation or part of one was to have a revolution, and become truly communistic, would there be some sort of governmental currency for use in importing goods and the like? The citizens would probably not be able to survive on the products of their one nation alone, and one doubts that corporations such as Fonterra (which controls one third of dairy products) would freely provide goods to the commune. Could someone give me a rundown of how it would work?
I drop knowledge so heavy it leaves the world unbalanced.
Creating a truly communistic society that isn't on self-sufficient land, and has no connection to any resources is a fruitless revolution which should be discouraged.
No there would be no currency. Communism is beyond it. But a communist society that could sustain itself would be a doomed society anyway at all.
He who was previously the money-owner now strides out in front as a capitalist; the possessor of labour-power follows as his worker. The one smirks self-importantly and is intent on business; the other is timid and holds back, like someone who has brought his own hide to market and now has nothing else to expect but - a good tanning. - Karl Marx, Capital Volume I
I think money would be a necessary evil untill communism existed on a near enough global scale, where the commune could be entirely self-sufficient.
It'd be nice to think that in iscolated comunist countries the use of money could be restricted to dealing only with external capatalistic sources of trade, whilst internally goods are distributed on the ability/need principal, though I'm not sure how realistic this would be. Perhaps someone with a better grasp of economics could clarify the situation...
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see
John Lennon: Working Class Hero
I think you're right. It's almost impossible to imagine a no-money island in YES-money world. I believe first the globe-scale socialism should be achieved. Then there will be gradual transition to no-money society. Communism.
<span style=\'colorurple\'>El pueblo unido jamas sera vencido!</span>
<span style=\'color:red\'>"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." A.Einstein</span>
<span style=\'color:green\'>Those who lead the country into the abyss
Call ruling too difficult
For ordinary men.
Bertolt Brecht</span>
Che-Guevara.ru
i think that communism can not survive on a national level...communism would work well only if it were global...or in a large nation like russia....with a reasonable population.....and as for money...i think they ought to abolish money at an individual level and use it only to trade rescources and goods at a national level.
<span style=\'color:red\'>'Fuck You! I Wont Do What You Tell Me'</span>
im new here and im just learning about communism but i was wondering how it would be possible to start a revalution in areas which are not third world countries ( rich capitalist societies) where the proletariat is blinded by greed (how would you get people to join your revalution)? i mean i know che said that if a revalution is started people will join the cause, but would it even be possible to gather a force that wont be thwarted like ants by armies, and the organizations like the CIA? i mean they basically killed che.
And So castles made of sand slip into the sea, eventually.
-Jimi Hendrix
the proletariat being blinded by greed is perhaps even positive, because if they revolt, they get the wealth and power of the bourgeoisie
ο λαός θα πεί την τελευταία λέξη - αυτές οι νύχτες είναι του αλέξη!
Freedom without equality is privilege - Equality without freedom is a barracks
'Engels, my brother from another class,
we haz got to get fucked up on the grog, and then revolt...if the lessons of the Paris Commune has taught as such, the working class cannot lay hold of the ready made bourgeoisie alcohol, they must smash it, and get pissed on cheap methylated spirits.
holler,
marxy.'
- BCBM=AndreasBaader
The thing is the majority of the proletariat (in the West) believe capitalism is "effective", and that in the long run, they are the winner.
If they had faith in me and my motives, they wouldn't need a union
Starbucks Chairman Howard Schultz
so a revolution would actually be effective?
And So castles made of sand slip into the sea, eventually.
-Jimi Hendrix
it would be harder to have a revolution in third world countries...i think because there is no awareness about socialism/communism and i doubt there being a revolution any time soon...and as for it's effectiveness..that is highly debatable and i'm not quite sure about what you mean by 'so a revolution would actually be effective?' and aslo i'm not sure about it's relevance to this thread
<span style=\'color:red\'>'Fuck You! I Wont Do What You Tell Me'</span>
first off i meant to start a new thread but by the time i realized i had posted on this one it was already posted, and i dont see a delete post button. second i meant that to confirm what he was saying because it was my impression that revolting in an opressed country would be easier than in one that has no problems with its society. but obviously i stand corrected.
And So castles made of sand slip into the sea, eventually.
-Jimi Hendrix
The theory is, in capitalism, so much product is wasted. Millions of tonnes of grain are dumped into the sea when people are starving, in order to keep prices (therefore profits) up. Competiton between capitalists pushed prices up. For example, if 5 shop keepers want to buy a rare diamond, say, they will try to out bid each other for it. But why is the diamond worth so much? only because they are hard to come by!
In a communist society it is important to remember there must first have been Socialism. This will make a market system which can harness productive power and cut out pointless seller competition.
( am i right in saying, in a socialist economy, a diamond would be worthless? at least, only worth the labour time spent polishing it etc)
Any way, after a while, society would have so much product, money would no longer be necessary, there would be so much of everything. In theory. Socialism pays the workers what their labour is worth; so therefore the working class can buy back what they have produced. In capitalism. they cannot, meaning they use credit, which makes money seriously out of line with actual value. This causes economic depression/crisis. when the ruling class cant sell any more (because the working class cant afford it) they try to maximize their profit by pushing down our wages, but, hang on! that means we can buy even LESS of their goods! oh so full of contradicitons capitalism is!
basically, i think you can have money in a communist society, as long as it represents labour value only. And a gift economy can exist alongside it, so if im a doctor i can treat many people without a profit insentive, because then i will gain respect, then i still get money because SO MANY people will want to be treated by me! Hope that helped.
O BAILAN TODOS
O NO BAILA NADIE!
(either everyone dances, or no one dances)
Economic Left/Right: -8.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82
You have to also take into account the labour-power devoted to unearthing the diamond, taking into account the average labour-power that would go into finding a diamond of particular size, and then finally, refining it.
"Revolutions are the locomotives of history."
<Armchair> so, i just figured out, the phone doesn't fit any of the holes in the back of the computer
I'll probably be ousted for saying this but I don't think the problem is that we live in a capitalist society but in how it is run. If we could provide jobs and pay the workers a decient wage so that they wouldn't have to work 2 or 3 jobs to support themselves and their families we would start to at least start to srink the gap between classes. I think the best senario would be to raise the minimum wage, stop outsourcing, and provide socialized health care. I think that by doing this we could really improve the lives of everyone in this country.
