Thread: Question for Libertarians.

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  1. #1
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    Libertarian ideology declares an opposition to large govt on the basis that it has too much power in peoples lives and can restrict freedom. This is a fair point, and something many Socialists and Anarchists would agree on.

    However, is there not a danger that by destroying all regulations, large companies would restrict peoples freedom and have too much power, making them as bad as large govt?

    Take for example, the influence of big business in the funding and manipulation of political parties and it's involvement in killing of trade unionists, eg Coca Cola in Columbia and Shell in Nigeria to name but two.
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    Originally posted by Andy Bowden@Jun 17 2005, 08:17 PM
    Libertarian ideology declares an opposition to large govt on the basis that it has too much power in peoples lives and can restrict freedom. This is a fair point, and something many Socialists and Anarchists would agree on.

    I wouldn't say "agree on", more like "pay lip-service to", especially the socialists. Has there ever been a socialist state that has resulted in small government ?

    However, is there not a danger that by destroying all regulations, large companies would restrict peoples freedom and have too much power, making them as bad as large govt?
    Destroying all regulations would indeed do that. But don't forget the NIF principle- they would be bound by the laws surrounding that.
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    Originally posted by Andy Bowden@Jun 17 2005, 08:17 PM



    However, is there not a danger that by destroying all regulations, large companies would restrict peoples freedom and have too much power, making them as bad as large govt?
    First of all, can you prove that regulations are doing anything to help now?

    One of the problems with regulation is that it is very often HELPFUL to big business. The only reason many businessses are as powerful as they are today is because they took advantage of our country's flawed laws, or were the targets of government favortism.

    Take for example, the influence of big business in the funding and manipulation of political parties and it's involvement in killing of trade unionists, eg Coca Cola in Columbia and Shell in Nigeria to name but two.
    Once these companines are out of politics, they will have no strings to pull that get them out of criminal charges. If libertarian limits on government were followed, their donations could buy them no favor.

    A libertarian court system would charge them and find them guilty (IF they are indeed guilty).
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    SOMALIA





    no government, no freedom.
    <span style=\'color:red\'>SOCIALISM is CENTRIST because:
    socialism provides social-economic stability.
    socialism empowers all. empowerment of all=freedom</span>
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    Dont they have some sort of Government in Nairobi, Kenya?
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    Originally posted by SocialismIsCentrist@Jun 18 2005, 11:37 AM
    SOMALIA

    no government, no freedom.


    Full government, no freedom
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    Ha, How ya doing PJ? Great to see another Libertarian on board.
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    nice one PJ
    ο λαός θα πεί την τελευταία λέξη - αυτές οι νύχτες είναι του αλέξη!

    Freedom without equality is privilege - Equality without freedom is a barracks

    'Engels, my brother from another class,

    we haz got to get fucked up on the grog, and then revolt...if the lessons of the Paris Commune has taught as such, the working class cannot lay hold of the ready made bourgeoisie alcohol, they must smash it, and get pissed on cheap methylated spirits.

    holler,

    marxy.'

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    Libertarians are not necessarily anarchist.

    Many believe in a government that exists only to protect rights.
    Human life is not commodity, figures, statistics or make believe.
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    However, is there not a danger that by destroying all regulations, large companies would restrict peoples freedom and have too much power, making them as bad as large govt?
    There are large implications for getting rid of all regulations on business. For example, the potential for corruption/abuse is increased significantly. See Enron, Worldcom, Tyco and countless others.

    I don&#39;t even consider libertarians to be leftist. They believe in complete unrestricted trade and commerce, which means they support the WTO and agreements like NAFTA.
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    What restrictions would libertarians remove then?
    Would there still be a minimum wage?
    Would Trade Union rights be restricted?

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    yes to the last 2 questions. Libertarians of the capitalist kind that is.
    ο λαός θα πεί την τελευταία λέξη - αυτές οι νύχτες είναι του αλέξη!

    Freedom without equality is privilege - Equality without freedom is a barracks

    'Engels, my brother from another class,

    we haz got to get fucked up on the grog, and then revolt...if the lessons of the Paris Commune has taught as such, the working class cannot lay hold of the ready made bourgeoisie alcohol, they must smash it, and get pissed on cheap methylated spirits.

    holler,

    marxy.'

    - BCBM=AndreasBaader
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    So what restrictions would be removed then?
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Andy Bowden@Jun 19 2005, 01:02 PM
    So what restrictions would be removed then?
    We&#39;ve just said. All of them, except for the ones that govern the initiation of force.
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    No regulations on business would create monopolies. Monopolies by definition can influence prices at will. Thus it would actually hurt Adam Smith&#39;s concept of "the invisible hand" i.e., the price mechanism known as supply and demand, because the market is uncompetitive .
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    Originally posted by Andy Bowden@Jun 19 2005, 02:02 PM
    So what restrictions would be removed then?
    Think of what is considered a right.

    Then do anything you want to do as long as you don&#39;t violate the rights of others. If anything stops you from doing anything you want to do and don&#39;t violate the rights of others then that restriction needs to be removed under libertianism.

    Free health care, education, and work is NOT a right. They are privildges because demanding such things to be rights violates the rights of others.
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    Originally posted by Andy Bowden@Jun 17 2005, 08:17 PM
    Libertarian ideology declares an opposition to large govt on the basis that it has too much power in peoples lives and can restrict freedom. This is a fair point, and something many Socialists and Anarchists would agree on.

    However, is there not a danger that by destroying all regulations, large companies would restrict peoples freedom and have too much power, making them as bad as large govt?

    Take for example, the influence of big business in the funding and manipulation of political parties and it&#39;s involvement in killing of trade unionists, eg Coca Cola in Columbia and Shell in Nigeria to name but two.
    Libertarians prefer big business over big government. They are pretty big hypocrits.

    Yes, it violates other peoples rights to own really really expensive things. Healthcare, education, and work are rights you elitist fuck.
  18. #18
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    Originally posted by Andy Bowden@Jun 18 2005, 07:04 PM

    What restrictions would libertarians remove then?
    Just about all of them.


    Would there still be a minimum wage?
    No. Minimum wage causes more harm than it helps. Why keep it around?

    The average family income of a person on minimum wage is over &#036; 40,000. What does this tell you?


    Would Trade Union rights be restricted?
    Trade unions don&#39;t have rights, they aren&#39;t people.
    Human life is not commodity, figures, statistics or make believe.
  19. #19
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    No regulations on business would create monopolies. Monopolies by definition can influence prices at will. Thus it would actually hurt Adam Smith&#39;s concept of "the invisible hand" i.e., the price mechanism known as supply and demand, because the market is uncompetitive .
    Name one monopoly that the free-market has created.
    Human life is not commodity, figures, statistics or make believe.
  20. #20
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    No. Minimum wage causes more harm than it helps. Why keep it around?

    The average family income of a person on minimum wage is over &#036; 40,000. What does this tell you?
    Minimum wage is what keeps people from being exploited like they were in the 1800&#39;s.

    YOU SHOULD TRY TO LIVE ON MINIMUM WAGE YOU PIECE OF SHIT
    ο λαός θα πεί την τελευταία λέξη - αυτές οι νύχτες είναι του αλέξη!

    Freedom without equality is privilege - Equality without freedom is a barracks

    'Engels, my brother from another class,

    we haz got to get fucked up on the grog, and then revolt...if the lessons of the Paris Commune has taught as such, the working class cannot lay hold of the ready made bourgeoisie alcohol, they must smash it, and get pissed on cheap methylated spirits.

    holler,

    marxy.'

    - BCBM=AndreasBaader

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