Right Wing Support in the UK

[commiecrusader]

Why is it that the BNP increased its admittedly small share of the vote, along with the Conservatives and UKIP, but support for Left wing groups such as RESPECT and even Labour has not been as dramatic?

How can we best counteract this?

[YKTMX]

Strange analysis.

The BNP did increase its share of the vote and its worrying but, you said Respect didn't do as well as them - which is just false.

The BNP didn't manage to come higher than fourth in any constituency, Respect WON a set, came second in a couple and good thirds in further seats.

Contrary to what you said, the Tory vote stayed about the same and UKIP lost their deposit in every seat they stood in.

There is an issue about disaffected working class Labour voters going to over the the Nazis but I don't think you should say that this represents some massive rightward shift in Britain.

If we count the Labour, Lib Dem, SNP and Plaid Cymru vote as the mainstream "left" votes, then that still counts for 60% of the votes.

[bunk]

Don't count new labour as an even mainstream left vote. I think it might be a big increase for the BNP actualy i heard somewhere some about a 400% increase in their support.

[YKTMX]

The reason I counted Labour is because the majority of their support is from working class people who still consider Labour, however erroneously, to be "their" party.

[commiecrusader]

YKTMX, I wouldn't class any of those parties as truly leftist in a socialist, anarchist or communist sense. SNP and Plaid Cymru are nationalist not leftist. And I understand that RESPECT won a seat and the BNP didn't, but nationwide, support for the BNP was higher than for RESPECT wasn't it?

[YKTMX]

I think they won more votes, yes.

Here's a good analysis of their vote, read this.

click

[Djehuti]

Less people participated in the elections than ever, right? Even less than in the United States? I think that is a great sign, people are really loosing faith in democracy, or atleast in this certain form of democracy.

The BNP might accually not have grown, they might just have gained more seats because less people voted. But please, I really really hope that the socialist parties wont encourage their members to vote Labour, so that the BNP (or Tories, whatever) will not gain seats. Such tactics are very, very dumb imho. Unfortunatly it is also very common.

But it is important of the revolutionary left to absorb this wide spread discontent, otherwise they might be lured to the dark side... h34r:
Serious, we must be better on showing the working class that there is a real alternative to bourgeoise democracy and fascism, and that the real problem does not depend on who sits in the parliament, nor on the number of imigrants. It must be clear that capitalism is the real enemy, and that almost all of the workers problems can be derived from capitalism.

We should not just react on the enemy, we must also take own initiatives! The victory belongs to he who takes the initiative. We also must not support the bourgeoise democracy over fascism, even though bourgoisie democracy is to prefere. Yet it is wrong tactics for a revolutionary. We must fight both, we must take the side of communism over fascism as well as democracy. We cannot support a less bad bourgeoisie society over another kind of bourgeoisie society.

[YKTMX]

Less people participated in the elections than ever, right? Even less than in the United States?

No. Turnout was up to around 60 percent I think.

they might just have gained more seats because less people voted

They didn't "gain" any seat, they don't have any seats.

It must be clear that capitalism is the real enemy, and that almost all of the workers problems can be derived from capitalism.

Fine, but the question is "how" do you do that?

Do you confine yourself to obscure talking shops which alienate most working class people, or, do you actually go out there and offer a realistic socialist, anti-war alternative?

As I said before, it's fine talking about "bourgeois democracy", but, especially in the current circumstances, it's not people want to listen to. They want real answers to their problems and concerns.

[Bazza]

Where I live during the recent election I only had the choice of 5 parties - Labour, Lib Dems, Tories, Bnp and Ukip. No left wing party stood at all. So, I did something I've never done before I spoilt my ballot paper by writing "none of the above" on the bottom of it. I'm still pissed off that the bnp stood in this area as it's the first time they reared their ugly head round here.

The rise in the bnp vote is worrying. But with other right wing parties standing in the same areas this will always split their vote.

[Che1990]

Labour are not really leftist anymore. It was all abolished when they formed New Labour and forced out all the left-wing extremists. Now they are slowly creeping towards the right. Lib Dem don't stand a chance, Conservative, BNP, UKIP are just plain outright fascists. It's all pretty fucked up (although better than a lot of other countries) and labour won the recent election as they are the lesser of two evils (Labour and Conservative are literally the only two choices). Of course we have the CPB or the SPGB but no-one votes for them because they are discriminated against by Blair's government (and Bush's for that matter but that's the USA). I live in Suffolk which is entirely conservative (I think) and I hate it! Fascists everywhere! I go to school with fascist, I can't walk down the street without bumping into fascists! SOCIALISM NOW!!!!!

[Deepest Red]

I don't think that the election is a very good indicator of public opinon, most anarchists actively encourage people to avoid voting ("it only encourages them!").

I do however believe that, in general, peoples opinions are gradually becoming more radicalised, probably due to growing disillusionment with 'our' government.

[Che1990]

Right-wing support is growing in the form of the conservative party. They won a lot of seats this election, only 3% less than labour. The reason right-wing support is growing is because labour and conservative are very capitalist and shit on socialism all the time meaning everyone thinks it's shit. Being a British citizen I know how this feels (read my post 'Fascism In Schools' in the learning forum I think). It's all pretty fucked up. We are supposed to have absolute freedom of speech but if you are known to be an active socialist you get blacklisted and you get a bad credit rating etc. etc. What we need to do is discreetly gain support then strike when we have enough of it, after all, they can't blacklist shit-loads of people standing up for what they believe in can they, it would be international news!

[bunk]

The conservatives gained more seats, but they only gained 1% more vote than they had in 2001....

[Intifada]

The Tories also got the most votes in England.

[Che1990]

They did, it's scary to think that if the vote was just in England rather than the UK we would be under the rule of right-wing fascists. I want to know why Michael Howard was ever appointed leader of the conservatives because he was in the cabinet in Thatcher's government.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by Intifada@May 24 2005, 03:21 PM
The Tories also got the most votes in England.

That's true, but it was mainly down to a collapse in the Labour vote. The swing from Labour to Conservative was pretty small. Even Ken Livingstone said that in London, for every vote Labour vote to the Tories it lost 3 to its left in the form of the Liberals, Green and Respect.

They did, it's scary to think that if the vote was just in England rather than the UK we would be under the rule of right-wing fascists.

The Tories aren't fascist, stop being hysterical.

[bunk]

The conservatives are bad but they aren't fascists

[Che1990]

I know they're not really but Margaret Thatcher was and Howard was in her cabinet and believes very strongly in her ideals. I'm just saying that we might have seen a repeat of the 80's if the Tories got in. After all, It's Thatcher's fault that workers were exploited, the NHS is so messed up and she was responsible for the huge recession in the early 90's. I'm just saying will Howard be any better as he is a Thatcherist?

[CrazyModerate]

Originally posted by Djehuti@May 7 2005, 11:56 PM
Less people participated in the elections than ever, right? Even less than in the United States? I think that is a great sign, people are really loosing faith in democracy, or atleast in this certain form of democracy.

No, it isn't a good sign. The right wing parties can retain control, while leftists are just sitting their saying "We don't need democracy, we'll just start a revolution." And then they are just ignored.

[13Commnists]

SNP and Plaid Cymru are nationalist not leftist. And I understand that RESPECT won a seat and the BNP didn't, but nationwide, support for the BNP was higher than for RESPECT wasn't it?

SNP and Plaid are more left wing than Labour or the Lib Dems, but not as left wing as the Scottish Socialist Party or Forward Wales. I think the BNP also ran in more seats. Respect ran in olny 22 seats to increase their chances of winning a seat.