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While sitting in a World Civ. class, I thought it pointless to watch a cartoon about animals on a farm. But I learned something interesting about this cartoon. The old pig who encouraged the animals to revolt against their abusive farmer was a symbol of Karl Marx. The next one to continue the revolution was a pig named Snowball, who was meant to be Leon Trotsky. And then there was this pig who exiled Snowball and turned the farm into a totalitarian state. That pig was to be Josef Stalin. I was impressed, because it showed Marx and Trotsky in a positive light in American media.
Stop *****ing! Start a revolution!
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...
But Animal Farm was a novel by George Orwell, a staunch socialist (though he was vehemently opposed to the Soviet Union). The story is an allegory for the Russian Revolution that casts Lenin/Marx (Old Major) and Trotsky (Snowball) in a positive light.
Anyway, check out the book; it's a great read.
La economia es de gente, no de curvas.
Orwell was an english dude. So it has nothing to do with american media. They probably showed it to you because to someone who doesnt know the background of Animal Farm its simply a story about how a revolution FAILS.
ο λαός θα πεί την τελευταία λέξη - αυτές οι νύχτες είναι του αλέξη!
Freedom without equality is privilege - Equality without freedom is a barracks
'Engels, my brother from another class,
we haz got to get fucked up on the grog, and then revolt...if the lessons of the Paris Commune has taught as such, the working class cannot lay hold of the ready made bourgeoisie alcohol, they must smash it, and get pissed on cheap methylated spirits.
holler,
marxy.'
- BCBM=AndreasBaader
But the real point is that it was shown to American children during the Cold War. These children maybe read the book, which is also great. But a cartoon for a child shown in America during the Cold War is fucking brilliant.
Stop *****ing! Start a revolution!
Animal Farm isn't anti communist, it's anti stlainist. It complitments marx and trotosky.
In what relations do the Communists stand to the proletarians as a whole? The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to other working class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.
-Karl Marx
It is only by strengthening ourselves ideologically, inculcating in ourselves the values and ideals of the struggle and building up the ranks of the revolutionary party that we will make it.
- Ta Power
I agree with you, but who here ever said it was anti-communist?
La economia es de gente, no de curvas.
Redstar actually had a good paper on this, very interesting perspective of the book,
here
The major thrust of which is,
"The conclusion of Animal Farm is that a new ruling class has taken over that is "just as bad" if not "actually worse" than the old one...and there is no sign that it will ever be otherwise."
The plotline is rather similar to the book "Animal Farm", however, just a little bit more humoric and bastardized. Renember, 'tho, however, stick to the subject and talk 'bout the CARTOON, not the BOOK, argh, damnit, IDIOTS!
Yes, this is true. However, I believe only one of the people posting here has actually seen the cartoon, so we must used the book as a basis. (This assumes, of course, that the book and cartoon follow the same plot.)
An interesting note about Animal Farm is that every character represents a different group/person in Russian society. Not only do Old Major, Snowball, and Napoleon represent Marx/Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin, but the other characters have allegorical identities. Right now I can only remember that Boxer represented the workers and the crows or whatnot were the Mensheviks.
La economia es de gente, no de curvas.
Yes, we had to watch a movie of it in class; with real animals in it...it was quite funny seeing a giant pig with a gooey nose screaming "ITS TIME FOR REVOLUTION COMRADES!" on screen!
Ha Ha
On a better note has anyone read "Homage To Catalonia" by Orwell?
Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.44
If you've lost your faith in love and music then the end won't be long - The Libertines
Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for and no religion too - John Lennon
Working men of all nations UNITE!
No, but if you give me a brief overview of what it is about I might.
</div><table border=\'0\' align=\'center\' width=\'95%\' cellpadding=\'3\' cellspacing=\'1\'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id=\'QUOTE\'>Now its all about whiny teens with their shitty soap operas</td></tr></table><div class=\'signature\'>-C Rasmussen
Red Star is just a philistine who lacks any consitient belief system. He is a baby boomer who went to college and decided that he would reject Lenin, for the obvious reason becasue he lacks any revolutionary dedication, but support North Vietnam, because that was fashionable during his time. Red's paper is just an expression of anger toward his early McCarthyist education, not any real analysis of the book. It was writen after Orwell saw the Communist Party of Spain betray the revolution, under Russia's orders, by attacking the POUM and CNT. He saw that Stalin had betrayed the revolution, but he was just the figurehead. Boxer is, by the way, not the common worker he is the Chinese Revolution of 1925-1927 that was betrayed when Stalin adopted the Menshevik two-stage revolution and ordered the workers to halt the revolution and unite with the Nationalists, for trade reasons.
No War but Class War
"I am suffering this ordeal partly because I sought an honourable and equitable via media of conflicting interests in order to harmonise our disjointed structure. It seems that the lesson of this coup d’etat is that via media, a modus vivendi, a compromise is a utopian dream. The coup d’etat demonstrates that the class struggle is irreconcilable and that it must result in the victory of one class over another. Obviously, whatever the temporary setbacks, the struggle can lead to the victory of one class.” - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, former leader of Pakistan, on the eve of his execution.
“If we oppose terrorist acts, it is only because individual revenge does not satisfy us. The account we have to settle with the capitalist system is too great to be presented to some functionary called a minister” – Leon Trotsky, 1909.
All Power to the Popular Assemblies!
Long Live the Workers and Peasants Revolution in Bolivia!
I sense a tiny bit of hostility.
</div><table border=\'0\' align=\'center\' width=\'95%\' cellpadding=\'3\' cellspacing=\'1\'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id=\'QUOTE\'>Now its all about whiny teens with their shitty soap operas</td></tr></table><div class=\'signature\'>-C Rasmussen
I believe that the word you want there is consistent.
And if that is what you meant to say, you are quite right. "Belief systems" -- like Trotskyism -- are pretty much useless for analyzing anything...except the psychological aberrations of the believers.
I have reported your remarks to the Disciplinary Sub-Committee of the Central Committee of the Philistine Communist Party.
With any luck at all, you'll get off with a year's community service...scraping pigeon turds off statues of Trotsky.
Listen to the worm of doubt for it speaks truth.
The Redstar2000 Papers
Also see this NEW SITE:@nti-dialectics
Ah so besides the grammatical part of my post you don't object to the fact that you have no conviction? Ok. Besides the fact that Red is in an infantile disorder, he has nothing else to say on the issue. By the way, do you even have a job? I mean how can you spend so much time on this site?
No War but Class War
"I am suffering this ordeal partly because I sought an honourable and equitable via media of conflicting interests in order to harmonise our disjointed structure. It seems that the lesson of this coup d’etat is that via media, a modus vivendi, a compromise is a utopian dream. The coup d’etat demonstrates that the class struggle is irreconcilable and that it must result in the victory of one class over another. Obviously, whatever the temporary setbacks, the struggle can lead to the victory of one class.” - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, former leader of Pakistan, on the eve of his execution.
“If we oppose terrorist acts, it is only because individual revenge does not satisfy us. The account we have to settle with the capitalist system is too great to be presented to some functionary called a minister” – Leon Trotsky, 1909.
All Power to the Popular Assemblies!
Long Live the Workers and Peasants Revolution in Bolivia!
By the way, I want to clean Lenin, not Trotsky. I'm not scrubing bird shit from a head full of hair, I want the bald man.
No War but Class War
"I am suffering this ordeal partly because I sought an honourable and equitable via media of conflicting interests in order to harmonise our disjointed structure. It seems that the lesson of this coup d’etat is that via media, a modus vivendi, a compromise is a utopian dream. The coup d’etat demonstrates that the class struggle is irreconcilable and that it must result in the victory of one class over another. Obviously, whatever the temporary setbacks, the struggle can lead to the victory of one class.” - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, former leader of Pakistan, on the eve of his execution.
“If we oppose terrorist acts, it is only because individual revenge does not satisfy us. The account we have to settle with the capitalist system is too great to be presented to some functionary called a minister” – Leon Trotsky, 1909.
All Power to the Popular Assemblies!
Long Live the Workers and Peasants Revolution in Bolivia!
This site is my "job".
It's mostly enjoyable...except, of course, having to deal with the occasional cretin like yourself.
At the moment, there are only about three of you on the board -- you know, the ones who confuse insult with argument -- so it's not too bad.
And one of those guys rarely posts any more...so that helps.
Perhaps by summer, you'll all have found other amusements for yourselves...more appropriate to your intellectual abilities.
That would be nice.
Listen to the worm of doubt for it speaks truth.
The Redstar2000 Papers
Also see this NEW SITE:@nti-dialectics
Ah, so here it is I am arguing with 60 something year old who still can't find any ideology, goes to whichever is most popular. Yes a great Marxist theoretician you are, men decades from now will write of you. I can see your biography's title now Red Star: Life of Impotence and Infantile Disorder’ or ‘The Story of a Philistine"
I argue with you purely because it is so comic, just your confusion makes this site worth the trip to the library.
However, I truly think you have no conviction.
No War but Class War
"I am suffering this ordeal partly because I sought an honourable and equitable via media of conflicting interests in order to harmonise our disjointed structure. It seems that the lesson of this coup d’etat is that via media, a modus vivendi, a compromise is a utopian dream. The coup d’etat demonstrates that the class struggle is irreconcilable and that it must result in the victory of one class over another. Obviously, whatever the temporary setbacks, the struggle can lead to the victory of one class.” - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, former leader of Pakistan, on the eve of his execution.
“If we oppose terrorist acts, it is only because individual revenge does not satisfy us. The account we have to settle with the capitalist system is too great to be presented to some functionary called a minister” – Leon Trotsky, 1909.
All Power to the Popular Assemblies!
Long Live the Workers and Peasants Revolution in Bolivia!
