Thread: Idealism and the Revolution

Results 1 to 12 of 12

  1. #1
    Join Date Mar 2005
    Posts 637
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    The modern age has presented humanity with great struggle and jeopardy. The powers of the world continue to reap the benefits of the working masses while leaving a wake of oppression and exploitation that covers the globe. The North American imperialists aided by their European counterparts hold the developing world on strings as it crumbles from devastating poverty and disease. Now, more than any other time, we must recognize these facts and begin to destroy these powers and look to build a more humane society, one of equality and justice. It is the American Socialist, the person living within the system that has the greatest power to educate, to motivate, and to activate the masses, to loosen the foundations upon which the imperialists stand, and to bring it to the judgment of the people. That should be our only goal, by doing this we will perhaps gain forgiveness from the world and someday acceptance as equals in the struggle.


    What fuels change? What makes men look beyond the norms of their society, what causes men to act? These questions often inspire great thought and theory on the nature of man and revolutions. Such questions stem from a yearning to understand the limits of the human, the limits of pain and oppression, the limits of tyranny and dictatorship. One cannot argue that such change is not fueled by idealism, a desire for change of the human condition, and maybe even a utopian view of the nature of change. Idealism is often dismissed as naïve thought and conjecture, but you cannot ignore the power of ideals when applied, and brought to the finality of action. Is the origin of idealism important? Does reality corrupt idealism, or does lack of conviction contribute to its demise? This essay will attempt to answer those questions, and at the very least explain my views on the topic.
    Ideals are not only a shallow feeling of pity or some utopian dream, an ideal can be a concrete basis for action. The ideals of the revolutionary are contrived from a love of humanity, strength of principles and the will to sacrifice for them. They are constructed from altruism, but empowered and reinforced by the desire to make the ideal reality. The ideal should only be the beginning of the struggle, and it should always guide us as to ensure complete victory.
    The origin of ideals in is important especially if those ideals are to be used to motivate action. Ideals that are based on study and education are not as strong as those based on experience of the reality. A man who has never worked much and has spent most of his life in intellectual pursuits may hold the ideals of Socialism, which are derived from a moral conviction or objection, but not cemented in any experience, these ideals will not survive through the struggle of the revolution, what is stopping that man from abandoning the ideals he once held so high when the fighting becomes tough and the goal almost impossible to reach when the only foundation for the ideals is based on text and theory. That is the flaw of the Utopian viewpoint or idealist. The absence of any experience of the reality creates ignorance and once the ignorance is revealed with knowledge, many times the hollow principles will collapse. Ideals are never enough to sustain the action, experience is necessary. However I will admit that total immersion into the reality is not necessary to cement ideals into strong sustainable convictions. A man can experience poverty and never live in it, can see the results of oppression and be affected; these experiences and the reactions that they generate can become deep convictions that are the basis for commitment to action. Ideals no matter what their origin are useless without action, that is fact, and the action derived from such ideals, even if they are not from direct familiarity is a positive change. One could argue that those who act without having to, those that throw away the comfort and security of the bourgeois lifestyle to fight for the common good, for the liberation of the masses, denotes a greater conviction to the ideals that inspired them. To make your self an equal in the struggle, in the action, is perhaps the greatest accomplishment of the revolutionary. The great Socialist hero Ernesto Guevara fought and risked death not as a leader but as an equal to his comrades in arms. His ideals drove his action and inspired change in Latin America. Ideals derived form a love of humanity, and from study, but cemented in the experience of the oppressed American people. There must be a movement from the ideal to the experience and finally to the action. The revolutionary who follows this path will be stronger than one only armed with shallow altruism.
    Idealists often fear action because they are afraid that the end will not mirror the vision which they sometimes hold as infallible truth. They are wary of outside corruption and subsequent disillusionment. However it is not really outside corruption that destroys the idealist’s aims, it is a general weakness of the idealist himself. If the ideal is rooted in firm bedrock of moral conviction, created through the experience of the reality then the idealist will remain steadfast against the corruptive attacks of the imperialists. The strength of the ideals or principles is only evident in the method and the practical application of the ideals, what lies in a man’s head must be compared to what is built with his hands. What he works to build should reflect his principles, they should be a realization of them, if they are not it is only the fault of the revolutionary due to a lack of conviction. One could argue however that in some instances the greater good or cause must be guarded against petty indulgences of the idealist. Simply put, details of the ideal can be disregarded as long as the goal is reached. Although I will admit that reality deems such evolution necessary and at times revision of the ideal, one must be careful not to destroy the foundation of the principle. If the goal is reached through constant compromise and revision there is a danger of constructing not a strong edifice of economic and social change, but a hollow cast that could crumble at the first instance of attack. Ideals are not infallible thought and should be revised according to experience, but they should never be revised to compromise with the imperialists and to allow for the re emergence of imperialist policies or influences.
    This part of the essay will deal specifically with the North American idealist. In the United States of America, because of the comfort of its citizens and the freedoms accorded to the individual it is hard to take seriously the convictions and ideals of the North American, especially when that North American is a Caucasian. It is often said that a white North American could never grasp the real effects of oppression though capitalism and imperialism, which their ideals, usually garnered from Universities, are not substantial and are usually pangs of adolescent rebellion. And while this may be true in some cases, I contend that many idealist and members of the cause are as devoted as their South American, African or Asian counterparts. Obviously they are not as deeply rooted in the struggle, it is not on their doorstep as it might be in Africa or Latin America however their ideals are just as solid, although their conviction to their ideals is rarely tested. The term “white liberal” is used to describe people that hold causes dear to their heart, but shrink of any meaningful action. These people look only to quell guilt and boost their ego, to appear altruistic without compromising their own comfort. Being white and living in North America does not automatically disqualify a person from being a true asset to the cause. We must forget the old titles and stereotypes that plague our society and welcome all willing comrades to the struggle, and at the same time guard against the weak white liberal component that could destroy the movement. Many non white North Americans and Latin Americans hold a feeling of resentment towards the white North Americans who do hold the ideals of Social and Economic change, of the anti-imperialists, such resentment is usually founded on the idea that white North Americans are acting more as preachers who dictate their ideals of change and again hold the ideals not based on real world experience but on intellectualism and naïve radicalism. While these feelings are not completely off based, they are swift judgments of an entire group of people. We must judge the individual, his ideals and most importantly his actions. Radicals and activists can be borne inside the Empire just as they can be borne outside the Empire, In fact it shows the true weakness of the imperial forces when members of its citizenry dissent from the narrow views and policies of its government. The ideal is borne through realizing the great force of the negative and tyranny over the world, especially the workers, whether inside the nation or outside, it is created when one dares to look beyond the black and white propaganda of the imperialists and begins to question the motives and actions of the people in power. The ideals are borne, and if cultivated and strengthened can lead to great action.
    Karl Marx’s writings which many attribute the birth of modern Communism and Socialism are for the most part the least idealistic of any Socialist writings. His scientific examinations of the class struggles in his modern time, and overall definition of the human as material, and the systems he lives in an extension of the material reality, are cold and mechanical explanations of the economic situations of the human condition and subsequently the social conditions. His writings however do reveal idealism, perhaps not in the language or structure of the presentations, but in the basic fact that of its creation. Marx’s approach had to be inspired by a desire to change the class systems that oppressed the working poor 19th century Europe. The idealism of Marx led him to put pen to paper and create concrete theories and studies of the economic system. His idealism was cloaked by the cold intellectualism that defines all of Marx’s writings. The intellectualism that moves people to act can, in my opinion also lead to a stagnation of action. People moved by idealism to study theory and manifestos can become bogged down in the technicalities of what are now antiquated writings. (Although antiquated in age, but general principles still apply to the modern world) Their idealism can be diminished by a strict adherence to Marx; this is another way idealism can be destroyed, by removing oneself from the personal struggle, from the masses, and creating an impossible standard for people to reach. The revolution cannot be one of strict adherence to Marx or any other theorist. “In these circumstances one must have a great deal of humanity and a strong sense of justice and truth in order not to fall into extreme dogmatism and cold scholasticism, into isolation from the masses.” The great hero of modern Socialism, Ernesto Guevara personified the balance of idealism and action, of intellectualism and humanity. His example should be followed when considering action, when forming ideals and setting forth on the great struggle of liberation and social justice.
    Ideals are not a shallow feeling of pity or some utopian dream; an ideal can be a concrete basis for action. The ideals of the revolutionary are contrived from a love of humanity, strength of principles and the will to sacrifice for them. They are constructed from altruism, but empowered and reinforced by the desire to make the ideal reality. The ideal should only be the beginning of the struggle, and it should always guide us as to ensure complete victory. The ideas and principles that live in the hearts and minds of men can never die, as long as we have record of the struggle, as long as there is oppression and slavery, as long as one man cries out for justice, there will be an eternal revolution.

    ******

    Please reply to this essay with crituqe and input, I would really like to know what you think of the work.
    Thanks
    MKS
    <span style=\'color:red\'>Any power must be the enemy of mankind which enslaves the individual by terror and force, whether it arises under a Fascist or Communist flag. All that is valuable in human society depends upon the opportunity for development accorded to the individual.
    - Albert Einstein
    </span>

    <span style=\'color:red\'>
    Lenin was one of the greatest enemies of Socialism...
    Noam Chomsky
    </span>
  2. #2
    dysfunction09
    Guest

    Default

    Now I only read the introduction paragraph to your writing, but I quote you as saying, "The North American imperialists aided by their European counterparts hold the developing world on strings as it crumbles from devastating poverty and disease." I was wondering what countries you refer to? How many of them are accepting aid via, The US, The UN, Red Cross, or any other services that provide aid? And how many of them are terrorist nations that encourage and harbor terrorist, providing a safe house. Now I must admit that I do not know how much the US gives out in aid, I know it is very little and not nearly what is should be, but what, "European counterparts hold the devoloping world on strings"? I know that our European conterparts are on much better terms with the rest of the global community, and many other governing nations. I was just curious on the information/sources that you interpreted, for your article, and whether or not the were a biased source or a nuetral news agency/source.
  3. #3
    Join Date May 2005
    Location USA
    Posts 6
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    i liked you&#39;re essay a lot

    its pretty much vague ideas that were floating in my head after reading JLA&#39;s Che Guevara but you made them concrete. Thanks&#33;

    the only criticism i can think of now is that you dont use paragraphs&#33; ughh thats just one of my pet peeves it makes it seem like you are reading for hours after 10 mins. Well you kinda did but after a bizzillion lines.

    quote
    "It is often said that a white North American could never grasp the real effects of oppression though capitalism and imperialism, which their ideals, usually garnered from Universities, are not substantial and are usually pangs of adolescent rebellion. And while this may be true in some cases, I contend that many idealist and members of the cause are as devoted as their South American, African or Asian counterparts. Obviously they are not as deeply rooted in the struggle, it is not on their doorstep as it might be in Africa or Latin America however their ideals are just as solid, although their conviction to their ideals is rarely tested. The term “white liberal” is used to describe people that hold causes dear to their heart, but shrink of any meaningful action. These people look only to quell guilt and boost their ego, to appear altruistic without compromising their own comfort. "

    very well put.
    I know exactly what you mean there. A lot of my friends who i talk to about marxism and communism and anarchism seem to get what i am talking about and they say they agree but if i asked them to take a plane out to venezuela and fight in the revolution they definatly would not do it.

    keep up the good work&#33;
    </div><table border=\'0\' align=\'center\' width=\'95%\' cellpadding=\'3\' cellspacing=\'1\'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id=\'QUOTE\'>The last of human freedoms, to choose ones own will in any given set of circumstances, to choose ones one way&quot;</td></tr></table><div class=\'signature\'>
  4. #4
    Join Date Apr 2005
    Location Trondheim
    Posts 929
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    Extremely boring. Now you might ask, why would I criticize it when I didn&#39;t read it, but that&#39;s just &#39;cuz the fact I didn&#39;t read it is a reason for critic itself&#33; I didn&#39;t do it, &#39;cuz, as Æzil said, too long and none&#39;s seperation of parapraphes. Too...blah. I suggest you re-submit in a better more diverse form, text needs to look good, with&#39;healthy amounts of breathhin&#39;spacasz, is&#39; important, yo, like, one space won&#39;t hurt, then move some of &#39;em to the left, then to the right, and then one in the middle
  5. #5
    Join Date Jan 2005
    Posts 614
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    ^^^ good advice from the master of clarity himself.
  6. #6
    Join Date Feb 2003
    Location perth
    Posts 98
    Organisation
    cfmeu
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    a pretty good read bro,

    A man who has never worked much and has spent most of his life in intellectual pursuits may hold the ideals of Socialism, which are derived from a moral conviction or objection, but not cemented in any experience, these ideals will not survive through the struggle of the revolution, what is stopping that man from abandoning the ideals he once held so high when the fighting becomes tough and the goal almost impossible to reach when the only foundation for the ideals is based on text and theory. That is the flaw of the Utopian viewpoint or idealist. The absence of any experience of the reality creates ignorance and once the ignorance is revealed with knowledge, many times the hollow principles will collapse.
    this passage stuck out the most for me, its very well put and i believe it to be very much true. theory is usless without a back bone to stand for your convictions, a backbone does not exist for someone who has no life experience. there are too many socialists who are not commited enough to stand on the frontline but are quite happy to sit home on mum and dads computer pointing the finger.
    "the soft" or "middle class" socialist who speaks with a roar&#33; but has no bite, they are safer in their comfort zone( as mentioned in your essay).
    aaggghhh fuck the champagne socialist&#33; like mother hen said "those who did not help make the bread-have none&#33;"


    Extremely boring. Now you might ask, why would I criticize it when I didn&#39;t read it, but that&#39;s just &#39;cuz the fact I didn&#39;t read it is a reason for critic itself&#33;
    sound more like your lazy, maybe if you ask nice they can put in comic book form, that way theres very little reading and lots of cool picures to see.

    4514
    rank and file
  7. #7
    Bold as Love-Jst Ask The Axis
    Guest

    Default

    A Double Edged Sword. HeLLA LONG&#33;&#33;&#33;
    Some very Interesting Points concerning the workings of the human mind and the power to dream*, Motivate and act etc etc.
    Regarding The issue of european and the U.s holding poorer nations by economic strings, I interpreted this as a wider Analysis of World Politics and not based on statistics of aid etc???(jst my view).
    Firstly-In answer to the question-WHAT FUELS CHANGE???-Your article definelty expressed your view that it is the individuals thoughs and actions which inspire great change, and you reinforce this in references to Guevara and marx.
    The concept of what some might term &#39; the hero principle&#39; has existed in all societies the world has known, But is a great Help and hinderance when applied To the supposed equality Of communism.
    For example-No answer could possibly ommit the power of Religion,and especially The great spiritual teachers and prophets of these,Although the &#39;concreting and organisation&#39; of these ideas share the same problems as those of communism.

    The question of ideals is definetly a subject which needs to be discussed in depth(and has been for centuries), and on this I liked the work you put forward in terms of its relation to revolutionary Beliefs, very inspiring, and with a bit of patience i found your personal commitment to be quite moving.
    However, as with all subjects both sides of the story need to be investigated, and in terms of idealism, what do you say to those who are braught up with capitalist ideals, Religous ideals etc etc??(&#39;&#39;the dull and ignorant-THEY TOO HAVE THEIR STORY, to quote deseederatta<definetly spelt wrong:])
    Interesting Points on matters of race/social status and a personals nationality relating to a revolutionarys &#39;commitment&#39; .Do you believe the same principals to apply to gender?And how does this apply to somebody who is born an athlete and someone who is a natural thinker? Not everybody is destined? or capable? of active Guerilla warfare&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#3 3;
    The most interesting side to this argument for me was your writings on an individuals dedication, percivierence and will to succeed in making an idea become a reality. I can realte to this directly more and more and am currently investigating the martial arts as a method of staying focused/commited/mentally strong.--One solution???
    Overall, Clearly an insightful piece from somebody of strong mind and heart,my only critism being its ?dedicated/one sided? viewpoint(my own belief is that religion and politics can only ever act together- i stress jst me again).
    regarding delivery,Although I believe the same ideas could be transmited clearer, I Admired your language for its powerful delivery and perhaps you may help others Create and succeed in their ideals too.
    I would definetly be interested in hearing yours and others views on these topics and possibly all your answers&#39; to the MANY questions your article posed.
    DEFINETLY WORTH THE READ&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
    So All i can say to the person who did not read it and trashed it-O ye of little patience and respect.
  8. #8
    BoldASlove
    Guest

    Default

    Love the comment &#39;&#39;champagne socialist&#39;&#39; Lmao, MONEY is the biggest drug on earth.
  9. #9
    basjata*
    Guest

    Default

    P.S- h34r: just FO R YOU O MAsTER OF CLaRITY(lmao)&#33; SPICY ENUFF 4 YAAAA????



    h34r: h34r:
  10. #10
    Committed Revolutionary Committed User
    Join Date Nov 2005
    Location 127.0.0.1
    Posts 10,131
    Rep Power 25

    Default

    I agree that ideals are essential to any struggle and that ideals are somewhat innate in us all. However, I don&#39;t think that North American socialists can really respond to your call. After all, what have socialists achieved in America. Not very much and they are not likely to achieve much more since they are totally disunited currently. We need another spokesperson who represents the ideals of socialism but I doubt he or she will come from the US or Canda.
  11. #11
    Guest
    Guest

    Default

    We cant forget however that Those who reside in Western society Must be strong in their own respects i.e Turning their backs on the capitalist ideals with which they have grown up and are bombarded with daily etc etc. It is the ultimate contradiction- Freedom for the price of inprisonment of dreams.However, I agree with MKS that Those from the west are in the most privaliged position to make a difference.
    How can the birthplace and upbringing effect the commitment of an idealist or revolutionary???? Surely this cannot be the correct way to judge somebodys heart-By circumstances out of their control.
    A persons impact is a persons impact, regardless of how some might percieve its creation.
    In regards to the nature of these ideals and their implimentation, my opinion is that the great Western revolutionarys so far have come to us in the form of musicians writers and artists.
  12. #12
    Join Date Oct 2005
    Location san luis obispo, ca
    Posts 2,974
    Organisation
    Kasama Project
    Rep Power 18

    Default

    I just wantd to say that I am mexican-american deeply rooted in my beliefs and roots. I have a grand father who was affected by imperialism, specifically the NAFTA(Not Another Fucking Trade Agreement). I have not had presonal experience of exploitation and oppression, but I have empathy for my brothers and sisters in Latin America and would die fighting for them. I have the deepest conviction to sacrifce my life for the revolutionary struggle. According to your article, I am useless to the struggle because I have not had personal experience. That is somewhat offensive to me because I know that I would die for the fight and my people. I have spent months thinking about them and how I will someday help them and bring about equality and justice. Not as the comandante, but as a guerilla soldier when necessary. This article kinda trumps those desries that I have held so dear and in conviction. Thanks for the support though. By the way, have you had any personal experience of oppression or exploitation? <_<
    Kasama Project- We Are the Ones

    South Asia Revolution - Information Project

    Kasama Threads

    "Settle your quarrels, come together, understand the reality of our situation, understand that fascism is already here, that people are dying who could be saved, that generations more will live poor butchered half-lives if you fail to act. Do what must be done, discover your humanity and your love in revolution." - George Jackson

Similar Threads

  1. Buddhism between materialism and idealism
    By Revolucija in forum Research
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 26th June 2008, 22:43
  2. idealism or materialism?
    By Red Scare in forum Theory
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 28th September 2007, 22:16
  3. Idealism Vs Materialism
    By bloody_capitalist_sham in forum Theory
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 24th June 2006, 16:53
  4. Idealism and God
    By Hiero in forum Theory
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 26th July 2004, 17:00
  5. Guevarist Tendencies towards Idealism.
    By cullinane in forum News & Ongoing Struggles
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 13th November 2001, 00:49

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Tags for this Thread