Question on Us vs Irak conflict

[Looking twice]

Deimos> i sure don't hope you ment me , off course i dislike saddam and his way of violating human rights , on the other hand what America is doing wrong too.
i just wanted too say that America wants to do everything on its own,and if America accomplish by convincing the european goverments that this socald war is good , than russia has no vote in this discussion anymore , and all there intersest are put a side

Saddam has to been stopped , but not at the time our economics are in bad state , trust of the people is blown away.while young man are signing up for the army of uncle sam.that will only bring more casualtie's than solutions.
think about the children in the middle east , expecialy in palastine. from the moment they where born ,there was a war going on , for almost 2 generations these kids and grown ups have seen nothing else but war and hatred.seeing there family getting shot , wounded , raped. its just not a good time too start this propagandic war about destroying terrorism of the globe.
its all propaganda to test new weapons for the army and to give the nationalistic people of the U.S. the feeling that goverment is doing something back for the 11th

[deimos]

its maybe not the right time,but its unfair to let the iraqi people wait.The us and and the eu countries created this "monster".Now the must destroy it.corporations earned huge amounts of money selling arms to iraq.Now the time has come to destroy them.

(Edited by deimos at 11:42 pm on Aug. 24, 2002)

[Son of Scargill]

That's easy to say from a nice safe western perspective.But,as in Afghanistan,how many thousands of innocent lives(and I include conscripts in this,they have little choice)will perish to replace one fucked up government for another?

[Son of Scargill]

BTtw,diemos,I have every sympathy for the Kurdish nation,I just don't want the US to hang them out to dry like did the last time.Also,if the US frees the iraqi kurds,will their stance change towards the turkish kurds,whom they consider terrorists.Or will they still be persecuted in Turkey?Turkey being a faithful lap-dog and all.

[deimos]

In this moment,kurdish and arabic people in iraq suffer from saddam.Sure,it'll maybe take many casualties on both sides,but think on the iraqi people!They don't want saddam,and they are to weak to free themselves.The us fight saddam not becasue hes just a inhuman leader,but that doesn't matter.I and most of the iraqi people would rather see a dead saddam and 10000 soldiers in 2002 than a continue of saddams reign.
the creation of a kurdish state has no chances.The turks are against it.Over 20 million turkish citizens are kurds.It would be a catastrophe for turkey if a kurdish state in northern was founded.

[deimos]

perhaps some kurds also suffer,but theyÄll suffer more each day saddam remains in power!

[munkey soup]

RH, if the enemy of your enemy is your friend (meaning Saddam) how can you claim to even give a shit about the Kurds, after all the fucked up shit he's done to them in the north. By your logic you would choose protecting Saddam over helping in the Kurdish causes, one of the few causes with clearly defined lines.

I'm not for the war for many reasons, one being I don't believe the U.S. will do such a great job in helping free Kurdistan (Turkey being an ally an all); but I'm sick of all this goddamn "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" bullshit, its flawed logic, and if all you so-called leftists acting hardcore anti-american would stop, open your eyes to the real world, and think, maybe you'd see that.

[Lefty]

has vodun been banned yet?

[KickMcCann]

I think its funny. After 9/11, right before the US military invaded Afghanistan, and during the operation, everybody whined and cried about war, they said they wanted peace, and that the invasion of Afghanistan was wrong. It seemed like everybody in the world was against the idea of overthrowing the taliban and rooting out Al Qeda, everyone but the people of Afghanistan. What alot of anti-war people don't seem to comprehend is the status of society in a dictatorship. Even if a nation, controlled by a dictator, is at peace internationally, it is in a constant state of war internally. Even when Taliban-controlled Afghanistan was at peace internationally, the people in Afghanistan lived in constant war with the dictators. You complain that the US war killed thousands; but in "peace time" the Taliban killed thousands of innocent people. But now the taliban is gone and the people of that country have a bright future ahead of them, all because the US stood up for what is right, even if that meant war. Still the yuppies complain. And though they never object to this internal war and sluaghter, they despise the idea of the US overthrowing a dictator an bringing internal peace to the people of nation, and helping gaurantee democratic rights to these people. I hate war in all forms internationally and INTERNALLY, I love and desire peace. But I support and will always support the overthrow of dictators in all nations, International, World Revolution.
To those who support the Iraqi dictators and murderers, who say "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", you are a bunch of bloody hipocrites. That frame of mind was the same held by the US during the Cold War. The US supported any murderer, thief, religous fanatic and general scum who were against communism. The USSR in contrast, only supported communist nations, movements, and organisations. If the enemy of their enemy was anti-communist, they fought against them too. You "enemy of my enemy" types don't support or care about the world proletariatians, or the will of other people in other nations, you only care about yourselves, and preserving your image as anti-US and Anti-war. You could care less about the oppression of the Iraqi people, the Afghan people, the students in Iran, the people of Saudi Arabia, or the people of the former Soviet Republics, to name a few. Just as long as your nation is not fighting in a war, you don't care if the dictatorships in these nations exist or not, or about the suffering of the people in these nations. You are just as bad as any US military-industrial politican of the cold war.

(Edited by KickMcCann at 5:37 am on Sep. 2, 2002)


(Edited by KickMcCann at 5:42 am on Sep. 2, 2002)

[Pinko]

You have a good arguement there, KickMcCann.

Most people will be angered that the US will do this without the support of the UN (toothless as it is). A line of sensibilies is being crossed. If the US gets away with Iraq, what next? It is the fact that the reasoning and rhetoric are founded on lies and propaganda that pisses me off.
We have no right to remove him.
Col Gadafy was pilloried in the eighties, the US was bombing Tripoli and calling for his head. Now he is leading Libya out of that era toward prosperity. Libya is becomming the shephard of North Africa. For a military dictator, Gadafy is rather a good one. He sticks to the more honest religious principles of Islam, he offers loans to other African countries and refuses to charge interest.

Surely the methods of diplomacy or armed popular uprising are more legitamate than one country dictating over another. Either guide them or enable them to choose their own future. Don't bomb the crap out of them and expect them to be gratefull.

[Son of Scargill]

"Holding tight: U.S. and the new Shah of Pakistan"
by Yusuf Agha (YT Columnist - United States)
http://www.yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=637

[deimos]

kick i agree with you.
but don't think the us do this to free the people.they only overthrow dictators becasue it gives them more influence.thtas neocolonialism!despite this fact,iam for the war in iraq.