Why you are a Marxist...

[Zingu]

Why do I believe in equality?

Hmm, good question; I think there is a ethical basis to my answer. It first started out as a nice wish; but when I started to read Marx, it became a reality and a viable, materialistic goal for all of humanity. Also probably since I'm young; idealism has been a strong force in me; which has now been solidfied by Marxist materialism.


Ethical basis? I'm not sure; in some ways, Marxism is not about morals, its about how society works and involves; not really a component of the theory. Maybe working towards the greater good, but I haven't seen any other part of Marxism suggest such a thing.


From I know of Hegel, Marx sort of "inversed" Hegel's version and made it into Dialectical Materialism; so uhm, yeah, it has its roots in Hegel.


For the last question; I think Marx looked at humankind like a cell going through mitosis; going through stages to achieve an end result. Constantly going through stages of Oriental Despotism, Feudalism, Capitalism and Socialism (like a cell; Anaphase, Prophase ect.). He proved society can be studied as a science. And as humankind refines itself; the end result will be Communism.

I like useing chemicals as an analogy about Historical Materialism; when some mixed together, they will go through reactions, just like classes and their contradictions to each other; both will end with a new result when mixed together, a new formula.....if you get what I mean.

[NovelGentry]

A few philosophical questions -

Why do you believe in equality? (Great answer for this on msn recently).

We are all members of society -- with that, we all have responsibility to that society and society has a responsibility to us.

If you do not feel you have a responsibility to society, it is difficult for you to claim society has a responsibility to you. Class society destroys equality on the basis alone that the ruling class is always placed above, and thus is a consistent mechanism that seeks to maintain society's responsibility towards it, while diminishing it's own responsibility to that society.

Materially speaking of course.

Do you think Marxism has an ethical basis?

I think it can be applied with the likes of ethics and morality, but I don't think it is necessary.

Do you believe that progress is an integral part of Marxism stemming from the Hegelian point of view?

I do, in many ways. My problem with dialectics is not so much the proposition that things that we can see be understood with it, it is the prospect that things we have yet to see can be understood with it.

If Marx was unaware of dialectics, I do not think he would have come up with the realizations he did. But I believe it to be extremely possible to come up with such realizations without using dialectics.

There are plenty of people who can understand Marxism without understanding the dialectic. It may be more difficult to develop it without it at least to develop it in precisely the same way Marx did, but impossible? No.

In short, I think we could forget dialectics altogether and it does not change the validity of Marxism and it will have no effect on our ability to understand the world from his perspective.

What do you think Marx means by mans species being, the end result of liberated man under communism?

I think Marx saw communism as a return to man's true "nature" -- no the nature these capitalists throw across (greed, envy, lust, etc) -- but to the nature of man as a) a material being and b) a material being with relations to society. In that sense a return to societies material relations to man as well.

Where communism will differ from man's earlier natural relations is primarily in technological progression -- the existence of class society before this period will have satisfied the massive productive means by which to sustain society indefinitely. We are in essence to become masters of our world through the knowledge we have gained through centuries, or millenia, or however long it takes -- which, due to lack of human history prior to existence of humans (obviously), we could have never been.

Class society has been a long road built on material necessity and the reality of these conditions, it is time we become fully conscious of these conditions and truly take control.

[NovelGentry]

Marxism is not about morals

I don't think Marx ever played the moral game, nor should we. We should always seek to understand our world from a strictly material position. Marxism is science, whether or not it is proper science or valid science has yet to be proven indefinitely.

The problem of course is, how do you push people in modern society to back something if they cannot get emotional about it. They can say "So what... it's science." So it'll "happen when it happens." Indeed, it will, but beings who can become materially conscious... we don't need to wait until it "happens when it happens."

It's like saying "One day man will understand and harness cold fusion, but it is not something we should be interested in as of now." -- Why the hell not? That is indeed how we one day will understand and harness cold fusion.

That is to say, they do not wish to push for cold fusion directly, but are willing to accept science which will advance the understanding of it's principles so that one day we can harness it. However, if we look to understand cold fusion, we seek to advance society towards both harnessing it and understanding it's principles at the same time.

Materially speaking we can advance society and we should. Socialism and Communism are advancements in the material aspects of society as well as the moral aspects of society. It presents more efficient produciton and thus more efficient settlement of material necessity and thus more efficient society.

[workersunity]

im a marxist on ethical and scientific grounds, also capitalism has no morals and the dog eat dog attitude has to be demolished

[NovelGentry]

im a marxist on ethical and scientific grounds, also capitalism has no morals and the dog eat dog attitude has to be demolished

Capitalism has a lot of moral justification.... compared to feudalism. This is my previous point. Those who bother to look at Marxism from a moral perspective only, fail to see the truth behind class struggle, they fail to understand WHY these "morals" come into existence, and they cannot perceive that quite possibly the material conditions of a time play into it. As technology progresses, and as society builds up a stronger and more present material existence, we see our understanding of the world and our relationship to it change.

[Zingu]

Originally posted by NovelGentry@Mar 30 2005, 11:22 PM


Capitalism has a lot of moral justification.... compared to feudalism. This is my previous point. Those who bother to look at Marxism from a moral perspective only, fail to see the truth behind class struggle, they fail to understand WHY these "morals" come into existence, and they cannot perceive that quite possibly the material conditions of a time play into it. As technology progresses, and as society builds up a stronger and more present material existence, we see our understanding of the world and our relationship to it change.

I know what Gent is saying, at least I think I do.


Marxism is a science; like you believe in evolution; not because of political dogma; but because it is true. You recognize that there are stages in when a species develops into an other as well. You know you cannot skip any of these stages; even if the stage of evolution you want is somehow "better", you know its all apart of a process to refine the species into final perfection for its enviroment. Ehm...lost my train of thought..

[Thomas]

Why do you believe in equality? (Great answer for this on msn recently).

Because each person is made up of a sperm and an egg, each person is born from a womb with a brain, limbs, lungs, a heart and so on. And scientifically and morally there is nothing to separate these people so why then does society create these divides? That's why I believe in it, because we are equal.

Do you think Marxism has an ethical basis?

No, Marxism is a scientific interpretation of how Communism will come about and function, alongside other views and interpretations (socialism and so on) however there is now an ethical side to Marxism, which is evident by reading many posts on here, some of which are mine. When people say they support communism before of the suffering in the world, and because they want Corporate Tyranny put to an end. But Marxism in its pure form is scientific.

Do you believe that progress is an integral part of Marxism stemming from the Hegelian point of view?

I'm sorry I really don't know enough about Hegel to give a fair reply.

What do you think Marx means by mans species being, the end result of liberated man under communism?

I think he's referring to the original Greek society, before land was made a commodity, and people shared everything. This was a perfect example of a "Communist" styled living, there was currency but in close knit societies possessions were considered everyones and people had no quarrels about helping their neighbours. It was a scientifically and economically perfect society.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Thomas@Apr 2 2005, 03:17 AM
When people say they support communism before of the suffering in the world, and because they want Corporate Tyranny put to an end. But Marxism in its pure form is scientific.

I have a "bone to pick" here. Is self interest really ethical? How about in the interest of society?
Ending corporate tyranny is in the interest of both, because corporate interests are not inherently interested in progress, though progress is allowed only when it serves corporate interests.

Since science is progressive, seeking to understand and preserve, Marxism would just be the logical/materialist method and ending the system of capitalism would just be best for all.

NG said something along this thought-line already.

Materially speaking we can advance society and we should. Socialism and Communism are advancements in the material aspects of society as well as the moral aspects of society. It presents more efficient produciton and thus more efficient settlement of material necessity and thus more efficient society.

[Thomas]

Corporate interests are in the collection of wealth, and expansion in order to strenghten their wealth. The whole base of corporatism is to make money and advance products.

Corporatism is a branch off of capitalism, they are practically the same.

And of course both Communism and fascism are anti-capitalist whereas Corporatism relies upon the existence of Capitalism to survive.

Not sure if I answered your question there, but I'm a bit pre-occupied and will try and answer bater later on.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Thomas@Apr 2 2005, 05:19 AM
Corporatism is a branch off of capitalism, they are practically the same.

And of course both Communism and fascism are anti-capitalist whereas Corporatism relies upon the existence of Capitalism to survive.

Now we have a problem...

Isn't fascism corporatist (some would say they are synonyms)? Also, don't fascism and capitalism overlap?

Not sure if I answered your question there, but I'm a bit pre-occupied and will try and answer bater later on.

No problem; I should sleep anyway.

[KptnKrill]

Ay, classical fascism and capitalism do overlap. Facism is State Corporatism.

[Clarksist]

Why do you believe in equality?
Because I wouldn't want to be treated like I'm less than anyone else, and I'm guessing nobody wants to be treated like shit by society. (at least not many people)

Do you think Marxism has an ethical basis?
I don't think its that simple. Marxism is the application of dialectics by some accounts, so mainly its just scientific.

Do you believe that progress is an integral part of Marxism stemming from the Hegelian point of view?
I think that Marxism is based solely in progress of social evolution, and technological advances (such as industrialization) which make capitalism unbalanced, and which calls for communism. As for if it stems from a Hegelian POV, I don't know much about Hegel.

What do you think Marx means by mans species being, the end result of liberated man under communism?
That human kind is constantly moving to a completely equal, tranquil existence, and communism being the final step over to that. Although I don't quite agree with Marx on that view.

[LSD]

It's somewhat ironic that the man who started this thread has now become an ardent capitalist and rejects all things "Marxist".

[bezdomni]

Why do you believe in equality?
Yes. All people equally exist and therefore should be treated equally by society. It's wrong to treat a person worse than yourself just because you make more money than them, own the means of production or generally disagree with them.

Do you think Marxism has an ethical basis?
Yes. It has a basis in the ethics of equality and human rights. There are few things that haven't got an ethical basis anyway, there is such thing as "bad" ethics.

Do you believe that progress is an integral part of Marxism stemming from the Hegelian point of view?
Yes, there is an obvious strong influence of hegelianism on marxism. Marxism without dialetcial materialism would have no roots in philosophy and would not be taken seriously by anyone who really knows what they are reading. Without Hegelian Dialectical thought, the idea of two historically opposing social classes would have never been formulated, and therefore communism would have no base in history or rational philosophy.

What do you think Marx means by mans species being, the end result of liberated man under communism?
Abbie Hoffman put it best by saying "Revolution is not something fixed in ideaology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process imbedded in the human spirit." Humanity will constantly strive to improve itself towards a classless ans stateless society where production meets the needs, and the means of production is owned and controlled democratically by the people.

[cormacobear]

Because I am about to start a family and I love my children and Grandchildren enough to want the best life they can have and for them to not have to live under the stigma of mutually ensured destruction. The best way to ensure all this is to see that everyone has it.

Secondly my Chistian beleifs compell me to fight for social justice for the oppressed

[OleMarxco]

Question: Why do you believe in equality?
Answer: A very dumb question...it's the only sensible thing to do. But, since you require a "real" answer, here's mine; Because it is possible to do with today's resources.

Question: Do you think Marxism has an ethical basis?
Answer: Sort of....



Just kidding! My answer doesn't end there, of course. Well, as I said; Yes and no. Yes, because it is "caring for workers", but no....because it's uncaring of the burgeouise and the morality of religion. But that's all about it with ethics and Marxism.

Question: Do you believe that progress is an integral part of Marxism stemming from the Hegelian point of view?
Answer: As far as you could SAY that! I really don't know. Nor does it matter. It was pretty mutch only way to "present" it, me thinkesth. I don't care more to elaborate, since I find it's, well, VERY VERY insignificant.

Answer: Question below. Uh.....well, maybe that we are now more closer to the soul and more as a perfected human being? I really have no idea... but we sure become far more liberated, that's much fer sure!
Question: What do you think Marx means by man's species being, the end result of liberated man under communism?

[Holocaustpulp]

"Why do you believe in equality?"

This is the only mode of life in which humans can live to their utmost individual potential, without any generalizing hassles.

"Do you think Marxism has an ethical basis?"

By all means - it is the rational alternative that succeeds capitalism. It is proven as a science and vindicated by social conditions.

"Do you believe that progress is an integral part of Marxism stemming from the Hegelian point of view?"

I'm not sure of its relation to Hegel... but progress is indeed a predominant characteristic in Marxist reasoning.

"What do you think Marx means by mans species being, the end result of liberated man under communism?"

Communism is the height of humanity, and thus the highest exhibition of man as a species. The communist society allowed such a humane status to exist, and thus liberated man from capitalism.

- Holocaustpulp