fascists in the street

[Anarchist Freedom]

we have these teenagers who call themselves nazis and give me shit for being anarchist. Personally they arent worth it because they just say there nazis they probably havent even read one bit of facist literature because if they did they wouldnt be supporting it.

[bed_of_nails]

There is a better way to beat these Nazis... Look how many Nazis there are compared to us (excluding places like Cuba and China). We will get KILLED in a last man standing conflict. What we need to do is turn the public on to our side so that Nazism is even more hated.

[RASH chris]

Dude, we outnumber the Nazis by a staggering amount. The difference is, the nazis have big compounds and farms where they get together and shoot guns and play soldier. They go out and act on thier theory. We sit around an discuss our theory. In most cases when there is a confrontation between the left and the Nazis on the street (which is almost always RASH/ASAP/ARA/AFA skinheads vs. Nazi skins) we come out on top. There are more of us, and the majority of the people in this country don't like nazis. In any way shape or form. Fascism isn't really a threat in the west. Lots of us just get caught up in ant-facism cause it's fun.

[bed_of_nails]

I didnt realize that there were than many of us. I wonder how we could find them easier... I personally only know one other communist where I live.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by anarchopunkchris@Mar 29 2005, 07:32 PM
We sit around an discuss our theory. In most cases when there is a confrontation between the left and the Nazis on the street (which is almost always RASH/ASAP/ARA/AFA skinheads vs. Nazi skins) we come out on top. There are more of us, and the majority of the people in this country don't like nazis. In any way shape or form. Fascism isn't really a threat in the west. Lots of us just get caught up in ant-facism cause it's fun.

But the problem is that while fighting fascists off is a very noble thing and an absolute necessity, it does not remove the threat of fascism. The only force able to crush fascism, is the working class as a whole, through socialist revolution, not anti fascist organisations.

[JazzRemington]

My town is getting a small rise in nazism, and I mean small too. A few weeks ago someone put a swastika on a wall in the local college and just a few hours ago I saw swastikas and "SW" (probably "Socialist Workers"?) written on a payphone that I put one of those CrimeThinc "payphone is being monitored" stickers on.

Here's a tip that hopefully will work: Do NOT seek THEM out. If they come to you and attack you, then by all means defend yourself. If you actively seek them out for fights, odds are people will think you're just like them and probably won't support you.

[Commie Rat]

divide and conquer

have you ever seen skinheads adn nazi's bet the carp out of each other?
assuming they are as aggressive as people on this board say they in a fight ( 100 right wingers = 50 skins + 50 nazi's) (skins kill the naizs !00 - 50 = 50 = less peopel we have to fight ) h34r:

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by BOZG@Mar 29 2005, 10:37 PM

But the problem is that while fighting fascists off is a very noble thing and an absolute necessity, it does not remove the threat of fascism. The only force able to crush fascism, is the working class as a whole, through socialist revolution, not anti fascist organisations.

Yes, comrade, that's what I was saying. Perhaps you misunderstood me? The point of my post was that we already do combat facism in the street. It's just about all we do on the left.

There is nothing wrong with going nazi hunting. The public is not going to show you in a bad light. Nobody likes Nazis. Trust me, been there and done that. Nobody gives a shit about them all the police care about is doing thier jobs. And when antifa violence gets on the rise in the city, the corporate media normally shows Nazis as the bad guys anyways.

If you want to find out about leftists then do research. www.google.com can do wonders. Find an ARA chapter near you or RASH or ASAP. Odds are there is one of those groups within an hour or two. And they'll be glad to work with you on organizing in your town.

[bed_of_nails]

Another way to crush fascism: Promote literacy and correct grammar/spelling. Look at the Skinheads, they cant type or write worth shit most of the time. I would greatly appreciate if people here took more time to make their posts make sense.

[aberos]

who says lefties are pussies? does than mean that trotsky, lenin, khrushchev, mao, fidel and raul castro, che, cienfuegos, etc. were pussies? come on now!

[Anti-Fasist]

As all of you we need help in Turkey. Nowadays there is a flag propaganda here so many fascists are organizing by using this propaganda. Some left sides are joining these meetings too.
About 2 weeks before some Kurdishes make some meeting because of their traditional holiday and some provocateurs (We think taht they are police) fire a Turkish flag so many fascists revolted.
Today is the 23 th anniversary of Mahir and his 9 friends who were some of the biggest revolutionist. They were bombed and killed in Kızıldere. They give their lifes for revolution and we'll give too.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by anarchopunkchris@Mar 30 2005, 12:30 AM

Yes, comrade, that's what I was saying. Perhaps you misunderstood me? The point of my post was that we already do combat facism in the street. It's just about all we do on the left.

There is nothing wrong with going nazi hunting. The public is not going to show you in a bad light. Nobody likes Nazis. Trust me, been there and done that. Nobody gives a shit about them all the police care about is doing thier jobs. And when antifa violence gets on the rise in the city, the corporate media normally shows Nazis as the bad guys anyways.

My apologies.

I disagree with one of your points about how fascism doesn't really exist as a threat in the West and that the public is not going to react negatively to "nazi hunting". In parts of Germany and Belgium, fascist organisations can acheive quite substantial electoral support from 25% upwards and they do represent a real threat, while not necessarily electorally yet, they do so on the ground. In these areas, attacking fascists can be shown in quite a negative light and it's dangerous to assume that it won't. In these areas, fascists have to be politically defeated as much as they have to be phsyically confronted.

[bed_of_nails]

How do we beat them politically? It seems every attempt I have seen in a capitalist state has failed.

[BOZG]

I don't mean that we use bourgeois politics and parliamentary means to prevent the rise of fascism. Fascism is a product of capitalism, it is implemented by the capitalist class when their very existance is in danger, when the possibilities for socialism are at their strongest. While the capitalist class do not advocate a constant state of fascism, they will, when necessary and as such have no interest in actually eradicating it completely. Secondly, giving the capitalist state a mandate to crush fascism, also gives it a mandate to crush any other political, economical or social movement. The job of preventing the rise of fascism belongs to the workers alone as they are the ones that will feel the full force of fascism. By politically defeating fascism, I meant that the ideas of socialism and socialist revolution must be raised constantly and counterposed to fascism. Fascism must be revealed for exactly what it is, why it is used by the capitalist and where it comes from. This, in certain circumstances, where support for fascist organisations is quite high, means limited debate and appealing to people that do support these organisations. Fascist organisations do not necessarily grow in support because their ideas appeal to the people but because they are seen as "anti-establishment" or "anti-status quo", where living and working conditions have been attacked and the workers seek an alternative to the mainstream capitalist classes. Such is the case in parts of Belgium and we shouldn't just write off everyone who supports these organisations.

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by BOZG@Mar 30 2005, 04:02 PM
I disagree with one of your points about how fascism doesn't really exist as a threat in the West and that the public is not going to react negatively to "nazi hunting". In parts of Germany and Belgium, fascist organisations can acheive quite substantial electoral support from 25% upwards and they do represent a real threat, while not necessarily electorally yet, they do so on the ground. In these areas, attacking fascists can be shown in quite a negative light and it's dangerous to assume that it won't. In these areas, fascists have to be politically defeated as much as they have to be phsyically confronted.

My turn to apologize. I was not aware that the fascists held such power in Europe. However, in the US it is far less acepeted. Some of you may be familiar with a group known as the "Protest Warriors". They are a right wing group (fascist in the sense of Ronald Reagan and GW Bush) who crash left wing rallies and marches attempting to point out our "hypocrisy" and "confront us with the truth". This is normally met by blac bloc members who dish out a nice beating to a few of the "warriors" who then run off, tails between thier legs. The media has always portrayed them in a negative light. As being people with a stupid idea in a place they shouldn't be, and that they get what's coming to them.

Also, please do not use the words "skinhead" and neo-nazi/fascist interchangeably. I have many skinhead friends who would take offense to that. In fact I know that there are skinheads on this board. Skinhead is just a sub-culture. There are many different types of people who listen to the music and wear the clothes, and there are many different political strands within the skinhead scene. ARA (anti racist action) was organized by a large group of skinhead crews across the country. AFA (anti fascist action) is comprised mostly of skinheads. There is SHARP (SkinHeads Against Racial Prejudice) which has been around since the 80's. There is RASH (Red and Anarchist SkinHeads) which has been around since the late 80s/early90s. There is ASAP (Anarchist Skins And Punks) which has been around since the mid 90s. There is SPAR (Skins and Punks Against Racism) which is relatively new. There have been "redskins" (left wing skinheads) in the scene since the 70s. The SWP (Socialist Workers Party) had many members who were skinheads. There was even a Skinhead soul band from the 80s (SWP members) named "The Redskins" who made some very cool music.

[BOZG]

I think the Redskins were actually members of the British SWP, which are a different organisation. One of their albums was caused "Neither Washington Nor Moscow" I think, which was a slogan of the British SWP. It wouldn't have been used by the American SWP as they're not state caps.

[RASH chris]

I meant the British SWP, as the Redskins were uh, British. Also, I'm not familiar with the US SWP.

[Anti-Fasist]

Is SWP an international party.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by anarchopunkchris@Mar 31 2005, 02:10 AM
I meant the British SWP, as the Redskins were uh, British. Also, I'm not familiar with the US SWP.



Anti-Fasist,
There are two different SWPs. One based in America, one in Britain and both belong to interational parties, but not to the same one.

I've only ever really heard RASH, SHARP and other such groups being mentioned by Americans so I assumed you were talking about the American SWP.