Thread: Anti-Semitism in the UK Labour Party

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  1. #1
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    Default Anti-Semitism in the UK Labour Party

    Just wondering if some folks from the UK had any opinions about this controversy or opinions on the response from the reformist and radical left specifically.
  2. #2
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    Hi Jimmie: I don't know a lot about racism, classism or any other type of hatred within the England Labour Party, but I think that societies behave a lot different from each other. What I mean is that I think that english people are a little bit less friendly, more loners, more reluctant [to communicate with others] than regular people from the USA, Russia, Cuba or any other country. And we have to realize that the majority of british labor party leaders and members are white, anglo-saxon, so they might still carry in their brains and behaviour some kind of racism even if they hate racism [because of the leftist ideology]

    I think that they [the english] are like too paranoid against other individuals, other societies and against other nations as a whole.

    Because I was trying to join an anti-war John Pilger Facebook group, and the owner of that John Pilger Facebook group, [who was a british person] asked me a bunch of questions, making me feel like if i was going to join the CIA or something like that.

    So I think that their light racism that they have against other cultures is a natural thing in England and also in mny other countries, including Sweeden, Denmark, Norway etc. Those cultures are a little bit like the Celtic Culture. I think that type of behaviour has been brought to the USA by the european whites. And large part of the racism of the white blonde american families, might be caused by that racism of european societies from ancient history

    PS: Ive noticed that white people who tend to be racists, tend to be too exclusivists, too favoritists, too family narcissists, just like the behaviour patterns of feudal times where people only had special love for the members who lived inside their castles and communities and a crazy irrational un-founded hate for anybody who lived, outside of their feudal castle [even if that person didn't do any harm to them]

    Just wondering if some folks from the UK had any opinions about this controversy or opinions on the response from the reformist and radical left specifically.
    "You have to be a KAUTSKYAN on the question of organizing in "Educate, Agitate, Organize!" as opposed to "Agitate, Agitate, Agitate!" to get to the point of having a mass workers' party which can possibly pose the question of power." (Mike Macnair)
  3. #3
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    I don't know about the British Labour Party having a problem with anti-Semitism but I do know that revleft has a problem with Anglo chauvinism.
    Ted Grant was a gimp.
  4. #4
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    I don't know about the British Labour Party having a problem with anti-Semitism but I do know that revleft has a problem with Anglo chauvinism.
    You’re just two posts away from the 25 you need in order to post links to make this case of systemic chauvinism on RevLeft.
  5. #5
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    I work with my local Labour Party and I am getting annoyed with this anti-antisemitism business. Nobody seems to actually understand antisemitism, even less wants to have a discussion about it, and I'm talking about people in the Labour Party. I don't mean that they are unwilling to SAY things, worthless platitudes, about it like "small minority believes it blah blah", they simply are out of their depth. What I am trying to say to them is this:

    1) It's possible to self-identify as a Leftist but see the world through a conspiratorial antisemitic logic. For example, falling for the old idea that a cabal of Jewish/Mason/bankers/lizards/globalists etc. secretly controls the world, manipulating events in their favour. This is anti-Semitic logic. Rather than seeing in society the dis-harmony of antagonistic class interests, it substitutes for this a single secret group who intrude upon an otherwise harmonious society, creating conflict between people as puppet-masters, using this to their advantage (whatever that might be, pick your delusion). This logic is usually obvious on the Right, where the immigrant functions as this figure, the Muslim is both too particular (contempt for democracy, adherence to particular customs etc.) and too universal/rootless (able to use any tool, including social media to brainwash, lacks a particular familial identity etc.) That is, he takes on the contradictory characteristics of the Jew, the ultimate outsider who can't be placed comfortably, standing therefore for the displacement of the social antagonism onto a foreign intruder who disturbs the (fictional) harmony of the society. On the Left however, it can be more subtle. The long connection of the Left with Palestine means that talk of 'Zionism' can betray an antisemitism, a kind of Freudian Slip, or an 'allowed' antisemitism for Leftists unless we qualify it properly. The fact that the Palestinian struggle is waged primarily by conservative religious elements who definitely do espouse antisemitism and are linked with Iran, doesn't help.

    2) It's obvious that some Centrist Labour Party Jews are, probably in all obliviousness, using a pretty marginal occurrence (antisemitism in Labour Party), to mask their genuine fear of a Leftist Labour Party. As Labour Centrists are terrified that politics is actually BACK, (which is the one and only thing we agree with the fascists about), rather than the post-political technocratic democracy of Bush 'n' Blair. Posters comparing 2018 to 1939 are just perfect. Obviously for Liberals, both extremes are equally bad, and while communists don't actually declare that they hate Jews, there is enough of a hazy notion of history generally for Nazism and Communism to be lumped into the same generally deplorable failed utopian catastrophe category. nintchdbpict000397524166.jpg

    3) The UK is not the fucking world, it is a pretty small part of a continent which is RAPIDLY growing in fascist sentiment. From France to Russia, antisemitism and fascism in the form of an emerging alternate path of capitalist modernity, which country to country takes on a specific form of this general ideological trend, is growing. For whatever reason, in the UK our populism (which is I believe a much more middle class phenomenon than the populisms of USA or Italy etc.) has taken a Leftward direction now that UKIP seems forgotten. Whether the UK will remain an aberration in the face of the European Right I don't know, but the signs of fascism are here nonetheless as with everywhere else, and it is somewhat strange to focus on Labour antisemitism which is practically a non-issue (unless anyone disagrees?) in the face of real fascism. I am becoming convinced that British Leftist are oblivious to the wider European and global political picture in this respect, and do not have the skills to interpret these facts.
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  7. #6
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    Yeah, there are much more accute attacks on migrants in Europe and the UK is not the world, but I thought the dynamics of this in Labour and UK in general were interesting.

    Obviously there is a politically motivated aspect where anti-demotion charges are being selectively used to attack the Labour left by conservatives and the center. For example I’ve read polls that show that the other main parties have more antisemetic sentiment in their membership than labour - yet labour is still at something like 20% support for some level of antisemetic belief among party members.

    So it’s an interesting position for the radical left - to both argue that the charges are largely in insincere, but that at the same time there is a genuine issue with antisemitism throughout society.

    In the US, antisemitism was outside even the fringes of mainstream politics until maybe the last decade. Basically antisemitism was only common in lingering stereotypes or attitudes, but it had no real form. Now it has re-emerged in a much more purposeful way (I.e. not casual stereotypes) probably through the influence of the European far-right on the US far-right.
  8. #7
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    Hi tom i jas someone who lives in Yorkshire i would disagree that all British people are inherently suspicious of strangers but would counter argue that it is more of a problem in big British cities such as Manchester or London, as living in Leeds u can literally just go up to anyone and start a conversation about the weather, or politics, or sport due to the general friendliness of people.
    but i definitely agree that to certain degree in Britain there is a tendency to have a xenophobic view of society and be more suspicious of outsiders who you don't quite understand as i have also seen in Yorkshire when people abuse immigrants for having a different culture that is not understood. or another example is just the general xenephobia used against french people for, as far as i can see, no reason at all

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