Thread: Fascist are socialist to

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  1. #1
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    Default Fascist are socialist to

    National Socialist German Workers' Party
  2. #2
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    You're a genius! You found that out while never reading a history book or anything about revolutionary socialism! An amazing prodigy!
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  4. #3
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    Hello.

    By this logic, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (a.k.a. North Korea) is a democratic republic: look, both of those terms appear in its name, so it must be, right? Nope, it's neither of the two.

    Plus, even if that were true, Hitler's definition of socialism was not what actual socialists view as the definition of socialism; I've got Hitler's definition of “socialism”, as reported by French historian Jacques Georgel in his book Les Eurodictatures. This definition dates back to 1922, when Hitler still claimed to be anti-capitalist—that is, before he shew his true colors and started openly supporting private ownership and free enterprise:

    “One who is ready to endorse the national cause, to the extent where he doesn't know any higher ideal than the prosperity of the Nation; one who understood that our hymn Deutschland über alles [translator's note: “Germany above all”] means that nothing [...] in his view excels Germany, his land and his folk, this one is a socialist.”
    So, Hitler's definition of “socialism” has absolutely nothing to do with actual socialism—where socialism is defined as ownership of the means of production, exchange and distribution, by the collectivity as a whole—, but rather with chauvinism; in a sense, it is a full devotion to the German Nation. Indeed, Hitler's main goals in using the adjective “national-socialist”, as well as other socialist symbols, were to draw his Party closer to the German national-socialist workers' Party (DNSAP), a pan-Germanist political party in Austria—whose members already referred to themselves as “national-socialists” in the early 1900's—, and also to “irritate the Left”, as he alleged in Mein Kampf​.
    “It is a great fallacy to regard pure inventions such as fatherland, race or religion, as reliable compasses for political struggles, for none of those will ever be of any use to the masses.
    In the end, the only struggle that matters, the only fundamental struggle, is this of classes.”
    Myself
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    You may never see this but just in case:

    "Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"
    "Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.

    "Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic.
    "We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one."

    https://www.theguardian.com/theguard...eatinterviews1

    Bolding is mine. Words are tricky, don't get too hung up on them.
  6. #5
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    Most of these sorts of people consider 'state control' to be evidence of socialism and so draw comfort from the idea that Nazi Germany was some sort of all-controlling state and so was simply 'socialist' just as they have in the name. It's all ironic considering the history of the economy of Nazi Germany. The terminology of 'privatisation' was literally invented by economists in the 30's and 40's analysing the Nazis because most of the state-owned or influenced industries that Weimar Germany had taken over during the economic crises of the previous decade were privatised to prop up and support Germany's business class. Sidney Merlin in the 'Quarterly Journal of Economics' in 1943 said “The [Nazi] party, moreover, facilitates the accumulation of private fortunes and industrial empires by its foremost members and collaborators through ‘privatization’ and other measures, thereby intensifying centralization of economic affairs and government in an increasingly narrow group that may for all practical purposes be termed the national socialist elite". And 'The Economist' in 1936, in what has been suggested to be the very first instance of the term 'reprivatisation' being seen in the English language, there appeared an article discussing the Nazi economy suggesting that “‘Re-privatisation,’ as it is called, has, however, been under way in the cases of all three banks. Some 40 per cent of the G.D. Bank’s holding of Deutsche-Disconto shares had passed back into private hands by the end of 1935. The new advance of bank shares to above par ought to smooth the way for complete ‘re-privatisation.’"

    Suffice to say, that even by the very base understanding of political economy - that 'socialism' is simply state control - then Nazi Germany comes across as an economy driven by the ideology of private property, it's a society organised around the economics of only utilising state control for specific purposes (ie for the war industry in order to prepare for expansionism), and it is entirely true that the trappings of 'socialist' in the 'national socialist party' are entirely a paint job covering a core of capitalism. Fascism is a product of capitalism. End of.
    Modern democracy is nothing but the freedom to preach whatever is to the advantage of the bourgeoisie - Lenin

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    What did this guy get banned for? It's a dumb question but it comes up a lot.
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    What did this guy get banned for? It's a dumb question but it comes up a lot.

    I think the title of the thread and the OP itself are sufficient...(!)
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    Oh just a lack of effort? It would be cool to cultivate this part of the board a little more. I Imagine we probably get more visitors who oppose our views rather than share them at this point and I see a lot of "its not my job to educate you" on the internet when people have questions that could be cleared up pretty easily.
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  12. #9
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    Oh just a lack of effort? It would be cool to cultivate this part of the board a little more. I Imagine we probably get more visitors who oppose our views rather than share them at this point and I see a lot of "its not my job to educate you" on the internet when people have questions that could be cleared up pretty easily.

    Well, the actual original post is still there, it's prompted some discussion, and we're being *generous* by leaving it there, considering that fascists are not allowed to post *at all*:



    These are the rules every member has to accept when joining RevLeft:

    This Community is open to all leftists. Right-wingers are not welcome, but tolerated within the 'Opposing Ideologies' forum. Right-wing messages will be ignored or deleted in all other forums and the author will be banned. If you are a right-winger or convinced capitalist and can accept this rule, good. If not, fuck off and never come back!

    Note: Fascists of all kinds are not allowed to post on RevLeft. This includes 'National Bolsheviks', 'third positionists' and all other pseudo-leftist fascists.
  13. #10
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    I took it that he was comparing us to fascists since the nazis chose to call themselves national socialists and had the word workers in the party name. Its a really common association that gets made by normal conservatives and liberals all the time. Fascists never seem interested in sharing a camp with communists so it would be weird to have one pop-up and emphasis something like this.
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  15. #11
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    Fascism indirectly descended from the labor movement and from romantic nationalism. All indirectly descended from liberalism. Even conservatism did, believe it or not. Edmund Burke was a Whig, and a vulgar bourgeois in his eagerness to sell his advocatory services to the highest bidder. Just because an ideology or movement has a genealogical relation to a different movement, that doesn't guarantee its typological similarity.
    “[T]he notion of ‘capitalist democracy’ … ha[s been] rendered … into an oxymoron.” —Peter Thiel, VC-ist, PYPL, FB, $2.6B.
    “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” —Warren Buffet, investor, BRK, $81.1B.
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