GM Crops in UK given go-ahead

[pedro san pedro]

the dna can survie the digestive system unbroken -and is able to jump into other organisms -horizontal gene transfer.

bacteria in human bowels have been shown to ave picked up genetic material from gmos ingested by the host.

Several groups, including the Public Health Association of Australia and the British Medical Association, have raised concerns about the safety of GE foods.

There are many reasons for concern, such as the use of antibiotic-resistance genes in GE plants. These genes are added to GE foods merely as markers but could transfer into bacteria and render existing antibiotics useless.

Another concern is our potential exposure to unfamiliar or unexpected proteins, toxins and allergens through eating GE food. Overseas, a soy bean that was genetically engineered with a brazil nut gene caused problems in people with nut allergies, and a genetically engineered corn, called Starlink, was suspected of causing similar problems.

GE agriculture may also mean more pesticides in our food. Monsanto has already persuaded the Australian government to allow 200% more Roundup weedkiller in food so that their GE soy can be grown here. In California, where there is mandatory monitoring of pesticides, Roundup is the cause of more reported illnesses than any other chemical.

Current safety testing of GE foods is minimal. Tests are done by employees or companies paid by GE companies and the results are rarely published for scientific review. In Australia, ANZFA is the sole body to assess these company documents. An independent review of reports published by ANZFA has concluded that tests are inadequate, that GE foods have never been tested on humans and that some GE foods have not even been tested on animals

[crazy comie]

could you post a link to the source i would like to read it.

[Pepo]

At the moment that GM seeds will be thrown to the fields there will be no control anymore. It will become literally impossible to control what is Organic or GM.
NAtural crossing will occour between plants that were GM and plants that are in natural state. What happens next nobody knows.

This is a stupidity, we all don't need that, not even to feed people in Africa.
The poor countries need to be suported to developed themselfs and not to be dependent on our Aid. Also there is enopugh food production. Every year there are millions of Euros ending at some landfill because they could not sell all.

People in Egland should protest, put Blair in the cold.

Sorry to say my english friends but with your sistem you are going in the same direction as the neo-liberal-fascists-ultra capitalist US.

[socialistfuture]

im a fundamentalist when it comes to this one, I HATE G.E.
I want a GE free AOtearoa (new zealand), here thousands marched in the streets to keep it out, the government refused to listen. the Greens party and Greenpeace among other groups championed the GE free stance.

there are many kiwi activist against it and a real strong organic communisty here.

Activists should go rip out ge crops in UK. Direct action works! Here you can be labeled a terrorist for doing it, even though the moajority of the country didnt want it ( says somehting about ''democracy'' and capitalism).

I am a vegetarian so I do not want animal genes added to my food. I dont want pesticide. I dont want chemicals that are risky. I dont want to have the enviroment of this country at risk for corporate profit.

GE fuck off!! monsanto fuck off!! organic food is suistainable, people need to look at the methods used and the waste of the capitalist system. there is enough food for everyones need - but not everyones greed.

GE FREE!! NO TO CLONING!! NO TO CONTAMINATION OF NATURE!!

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

And so it begins, the mass hysteria over 'frankenstein foods'

GM/GE does not require pesticides, that's why they are GM.

GM can be used by corporations to fuck people over, but they do that with life-saving drugs and anti-biotics. Should they be banned as well?

Why are you afraid of animal genetic material entering your food? Genes and DNA don't think or even feel pain. You are being silly.
Do you even know what chemicals, if any, they use in GM?

GE fuck off!! monsanto fuck off!! organic food is suistainable, people need to look at the methods used and the waste of the capitalist system. there is enough food for everyones need - but not everyones greed.

GE FREE!! NO TO CLONING!! NO TO CONTAMINATION OF NATURE!!

It's crazed idiots like you who scare the public away from life-saving science.

fear of GM/GE has no legitimacy, get out from under your blanket and study the facts.

[socialistfuture]

I am not saying no to science - or lets be ludites and grab clubs to destory technology.

I do not like Genetic Engineering happening that is unsafe. I want anything that is released to be studied beforehand by an independant panel - not a thinktank for monsanto or a group who will directly benifit ( profits wise) from the release.

I do not like terminator genes and one stop crops. crops that have one yield and then die, requiring farmers to buy it every year from biotech companies.

I do not agree with patenting genes. I am vegetarian so I want to know that there is no form of meat/animal traces in my food. I do not want tomoatoes spliced with fish or any of that kind of thing. Yes it is hapening, yes you may get short term benefits. I am saying think of the possible consiquences. Once it is out it cannot be taken back. It is a relitively new science (many of the forms of it). There is lots more study to be done by scientists of both sides.

Life saving science? do you think that is what it will be used for? Do you really believe biotech companies want to save people? Their duty to mankind is driving the science? Hmmm maybe capitalist profit... no never of course it couldnt be.

Pesiticide resistance is not permenant. It is being found that many weeds are becoming resistant to pesticides. The rate of pesiticde use has rised since the so called ''green revolution''.

5 huge multinational companies ( the "gene giants") contol virtually 100 percent of the GM seed market. They also contol two thirds of the global pesticide market and iver a quarter of non-GM seed market.

The real issue behind GE according to british socialist George Monbiot is ''thre corporate capture of the food chain'.

Monsanto has said 'what you are seeing is not just a consolidation of seed companies - it is really the consolidation of the entire food chain''. (quoted from the GM cropss, food production and world hunger report by UNISON, june 2000).

The institute for food and development policy argues:
The world today produces more food per inhabitant than ever before. Enough is available to provide 4.3 pounds to every person every day.: 2.5 pounds of grain, beans and nuts, about a pound of meat mik and eggs, and another of fruits and vegetables. The real causes of hunger are peoverty, inequality and lack of access. Too many people are too poor to buy the food that is availiable, or lack the resources to grow it themselves.

In New Zealand the Greens party, Greenpeace, Madge (mothers against genetic engineering), Soil and health, And the Alliance (a socialist political party) were among those who helped organise the marches against GE being realised into our soil. 10,000 marched down Auckland city at one event. IN polls here it was shown the majority of people were against it. The government didnt listen.

I trust the greens and greenpeace more than multinational biotech corporations. It is our foodsource, our enviroment - we should have a say about what happens in it.

GE is about money and control. If i genuanly belived monsanto could help solve starvation. and pesticides would get rid of weeds for good it would be a different story. I dont believe them and I dont want the worlds eco system held ransom.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I do not agree with patenting genes. I am vegetarian so I want to know that there is no form of meat/animal traces in my food. I do not want tomoatoes spliced with fish or any of that kind of thing. Yes it is hapening, yes you may get short term benefits. I am saying think of the possible consiquences. Once it is out it cannot be taken back. It is a relitively new science (many of the forms of it). There is lots more study to be done by scientists of both sides.

You still haven't explained how eating unthinking, unfeeling genetic material from animals is morally equivalent to actually killing and eating them.
It may be because your moral position is complete bunk. Are you in favor of abortion at all? then don't claim you are morally superior because you don't eat things which act on instinct, like fetuses do.
You need to sort out that mess. It's hypocritical to be in favor of abortion and to not eat meat on moral grounds.

Life saving science? do you think that is what it will be used for? Do you really believe biotech companies want to save people? Their duty to mankind is driving the science? Hmmm maybe capitalist profit... no never of course it couldnt be.

Did I say that it would be the biotech companies who would be doing the life-saving? I believe I didn't.
But you seem to be implying that ALL GE is bad. That quite frankly is a disgusting view.
Would you be in favor of GE if it was carried out by research associates instead of MultiNatCorps?

The institute for food and development policy argues:
The world today produces more food per inhabitant than ever before. Enough is available to provide 4.3 pounds to every person every day.: 2.5 pounds of grain, beans and nuts, about a pound of meat mik and eggs, and another of fruits and vegetables. The real causes of hunger are peoverty, inequality and lack of access. Too many people are too poor to buy the food that is availiable, or lack the resources to grow it themselves.

Then it's a political and not an environmental problem. Why don't you campaign for better food equality?
Also note the world's population will eventually exceed it's current production capacity, meaning all currently arable land will be overwhelmed regardless of the political sytem in place. GE will be necessary in order to turn Siberia's wastelands into amber waves of grain.
Even if the world's population does not stretch our resources, the extraterrestrial colonists in the solar system which we should eventually step out into, will require supplies of food before they can set up their own food production facilities. Hopefully there will be lots of colonies that can set up their own food production.

[socialistfuture]

the fact is the genetic enginnering is being done by multinational biotech corporations - for profit not to help the world.

continamination of water supplies, desertification, deforestation, destruction of natural habitats, wasteful agricultural methods and a range of other things are what get in they way progress not people who want to eat non-GE food.

There is much evidence to show GE will not be the miracle science some show it to be. If it is used to cures dieases - who will benifit? those who can afford it. I want to know what is in the food I eat.

Once GE is realised into the enviroment it can not be taken back.

Personally I do not have a stance on abortion. Yes it is killing a life and I do not like murder (I am a pacifist and vegetarian). But I am not a woman, I do not know what it is like to be pregnant. If I female and got raped... it would seem strange to want to have the child. There are many sides to abortion I will leave it to be people who have stong opinions on it to debate.

If the population excedes the food supply then the population must decrease. Man should not be spending massive amounts of money building a base on the moon if he has not enough money to fund education, healthcare and transport at home. America is becoming dangerous close to having an economic breakdown the way it is heading. Spending massive ammounts on war and the proposed space project while neglecting concerns closer to home.

Genetic Engineering will not solve the problems of the world. It will not stop poor people starving, it wont stop disease, it wont stop enviromental destruction. The problems we are facing are caused by the capitalist system. People die of curable disease. People starve when there is plenty of food. People use unsustainable methods of living when another way is possible.

If you want to study GE go for it, but do not force it on the world without knowing the consequences. Without knowing the nature of what has been created. Science is not a god, it is not unquestionable. Many cultures such as some of the amazonian tribes have a vast array of natural medicines that work. Many natural remedies to ailments are ignored and suppresed by drug corporations.

An open enviroment of discussion and knowledge is needed. Not decisions in the WTO, and corporate offices behind closed doors. The public needs to be informed and a part of the decisions made.

[truthaddict11]

would you be in favor of genetically engineered food if it wasnt done by a multinatcorp?

[socialistfuture]

there are short term and long term consequences. I am a naturalist i guess. I dont want to see clones - imagine 5 george w buses. I dont want frankenstein food. I want diversity of food not monoculture patents. Fresh healthy naturaly grown food. the transport of food vast distances creates much pollution. locally grown food is easy to transport. food grown at home is even easier.

I believe there is plenty of evidence showing there are already damages done by GE. I want all foods to be labelled to show what they contain.

[socialistfuture]

i would be hesistant - of course it would depend on lots of factors. it would depend on the scale.

and of cause the benefit/risk.

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by socialistfuture@Apr 14 2004, 05:03 PM
. I dont want to see clones - imagine 5 george w buses.

cloning a person is far different than GM food. To go off topic just because you clone someone doesnt mean that they will turn out just like them. Do kids share an equal share of each of thier parents likes and dislikes? You could make a clone of Adolf Hitler and not have that person turn into a nazi, its called free will.

I want all foods to be labelled to show what they contain.

if you want labeling of food thats all fine and dandy just dont try to force me to eat your organic wheat crap. we certainly dont force you to eat meat do we?

And not all foods can grow in all areas so transportation is needed. So like it or not some of your foods are gonna be from out of your area even out of your country. before I left florida the grocery store a worked for was selling bell peppers from israel. its still the same pepper so who cares where it came from?

[Solace]

the fact is the genetic enginnering is being done by multinational biotech corporations - for profit not to help the world.

would you be in favor of genetically engineered food if it wasnt done by a multinatcorp?

But the problem lurking behind is far more important than that. Since the main motivation for the genetic engineering is profit, the scientific data could be interpreted wrongly to satisfy monetary gains. Scientists are free to choose what data to publish and/or ignore subtlety.

It’s is extremely hazardous.

The consequences of GM food are not being studied deeply enough. The transplantation of an alien gene in a plant lead to its alteration and thus creating potentially dangerous new proteins. We cannot be totally sure than it is safe. In addition, if an error occur, it will not be restricted to the modified plants since, through reproduction, it will be magnified greatly.

Some ongoing analyses, tests, experiments or whatnots need to be performed first. Otherwise, we are just jeopardising people’s health.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

the fact is the genetic enginnering is being done by multinational biotech corporations - for profit not to help the world.

OK but you seemed to indicate that this was the be all and end all of GE.
It is not. Companies of course want to make money, so they cut corners, this is why a certain amount of industrial accidents a year are tolerated.
You seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

continamination of water supplies, desertification, deforestation, destruction of natural habitats, wasteful agricultural methods and a range of other things are what get in they way progress not people who want to eat non-GE food.

mmm, I don't believe so. Since when have droughts and food shortages caused people to spontaneously lose their creativity? Sure it may cause them to look out for the next meal rather than invent new widgets, but at least these natural disasters eventually go away- critics on the other hand never seem to shut up.
I'm sorry, but it IS the nay-sayers and doubters who get in the way.

Once GE is realised into the enviroment it can not be taken back.

This seems outright contradictory with 'terminator' seeds- ones that only grow one generation of plants.
what are you talking about?

Personally I do not have a stance on abortion. Yes it is killing a life and I do not like murder (I am a pacifist and vegetarian). But I am not a woman, I do not know what it is like to be pregnant. If I female and got raped... it would seem strange to want to have the child. There are many sides to abortion I will leave it to be people who have stong opinions on it to debate.

Fence-sitting.
You are either for or against women controlling their fertility.
And also How is eating genetic material equivalent to actually eating an animal that responds to stimuli?

If the population excedes the food supply then the population must decrease. Man should not be spending massive amounts of money building a base on the moon if he has not enough money to fund education, healthcare and transport at home. America is becoming dangerous close to having an economic breakdown the way it is heading. Spending massive ammounts on war and the proposed space project while neglecting concerns closer to home.

How do you propose to decrease population levels? Start a real-life deathmatch tournament until earth's population reaches acceptable levels? Bomb an occasional village or town?
I care not for the economic policy of the USA (Except for the is one observation- they could spend a quarter of their military budget on all other sectors and still have money left over. They have enough damn money to start an american NHS, but it's too socialist for the tight fisted bastards&#33
I was talking about the world in general. Assuming key technologies are developed (namely fusion and nuclear propulsion, but there are lots of other things to be improved.)
Space colonisation could become very easy. But until these colonies can either grow their own food or set up a trade agreement (These colonies won't just be sitting pretty, they will be busy digging out resources to be used both at home and in space.) with a commune on Earth, they will have to be supported.
Until the entire world is communist, there will still be major problems, so I'm not pinning my hopes on extra-terrestrial colonisation until maybe the next century or so.

Genetic Engineering will not solve the problems of the world. It will not stop poor people starving, it wont stop disease, it wont stop enviromental destruction. The problems we are facing are caused by the capitalist system. People die of curable disease. People starve when there is plenty of food. People use unsustainable methods of living when another way is possible.

True most evil is caused by capitalism, but no matter how communist you are or how hard you try, you can't grow normal wheat in Siberia.

If you want to study GE go for it, but do not force it on the world without knowing the consequences. Without knowing the nature of what has been created. Science is not a god, it is not unquestionable. Many cultures such as some of the amazonian tribes have a vast array of natural medicines that work. Many natural remedies to ailments are ignored and suppresed by drug corporations.

I believe GE is still in the trial stages for the most part, except for some front runners. Plus without practical experiments in the real world, how will they know if their crop will work or not?
Science is not the answer to everything, in fact it's goal as a philosophy is to discover more questions. But it's a damn sight better than philosophy, religion, and 'magic' combined!.
It's a common misconception that the drugs you pick up at your doctor or pharmacist are somehow 'unnatural'; most of them are natural, but simply presented in unnatural forms such as pills, powders and syrups.
A lot of coughs syrups contain opioids.

An open enviroment of discussion and knowledge is needed. Not decisions in the WTO, and corporate offices behind closed doors. The public needs to be informed and a part of the decisions made.

Precisely, but qualified scientists should have their say as well.

And believe me, there will be a point where we will NEED gm.

[pedro san pedro]

QUOTE
An open enviroment of discussion and knowledge is needed. Not decisions in the WTO, and corporate offices behind closed doors. The public needs to be informed and a part of the decisions made.



Precisely, but qualified scientists should have their say as well.

completely in agreement with you. perhaps you would like to listen to what the majority of scientists are saying -that this technology is far to crude and unpredictable to be released into the environment, and should be contained to laboratory.

the ge-free movement is not about halting science -it is about creating resposnible science, not profit at all costs.

almost all ge-free groups do not campaign agaisnt research carried out within labs.
the same stance that orgs such as PSRAST mirror.

I believe GE is still in the trial stages for the most part, except for some front runners. Plus without practical experiments in the real world, how will they know if their crop will work or not?

and how would you propose to contain these experiments? how would you stop contamination of non-ge crops??

NoXion Posted on Apr 14 2004, 01:29 AM
And so it begins, the mass hysteria over 'frankenstein foods'

GM/GE does not require pesticides, that's why they are GM.

most ge crops are modified to be pesticide resistant. hence, more pesticides can be used.
look at who is pushing this technology -chemical companies

[DaCuBaN]

Originally posted by socialistfuture@Apr 13 2004, 10:20 AM
im a fundamentalist when it comes to this one, I HATE G.E.
I want a GE free AOtearoa (new zealand), here thousands marched in the streets to keep it out, the government refused to listen. the Greens party and Greenpeace among other groups championed the GE free stance.

there are many kiwi activist against it and a real strong organic communisty here.

Activists should go rip out ge crops in UK. Direct action works! Here you can be labeled a terrorist for doing it, even though the moajority of the country didnt want it ( says somehting about ''democracy'' and capitalism).

I am a vegetarian so I do not want animal genes added to my food. I dont want pesticide. I dont want chemicals that are risky. I dont want to have the enviroment of this country at risk for corporate profit.

GE fuck off!! monsanto fuck off!! organic food is suistainable, people need to look at the methods used and the waste of the capitalist system. there is enough food for everyones need - but not everyones greed.

GE FREE!! NO TO CLONING!! NO TO CONTAMINATION OF NATURE!!

Well having grown weed for several years now I can safely tell you there is nothing wrong with cloning, so there's no need to get overzelous about that one at least

I've not done enough research into the subject to really comment on it but yes, the idea that GM foodstuffs are going to be the solution to world hunger seems a little optimistic. But that is no reason to write them off.

One thought occurs to me: we are yet to succesfully grow anything organic in space and if we ever do start 'exploring' then we really would need to be able to. I can't really see how we could 'develop' a suitable space-worthy crop without genetic engineering.

To be honest, this is classic 'Not In My Back Yard'
I for one am all for it (though this IS an uneducated standpoint). Hell i've probably got mad cow disease anyway so why should I really care. And even if I don't I smoke like a chimney so my lungs will collapse before I'm old enough to experience any of these 'long term' symptoms of which you speak.

[quote]This seems outright contradictory with 'terminator' seeds- ones that only grow one generation of plants[quote]

If these plants flower (I couldn't tell you) then they will release pollen in which case you'll get cross breeding. Not a lot we can do about that, short of engineering them not to flower (which maybe they are, again I don't know)

I for one see fantastic potentional in this technology, and I'm glad to see ole blighty sticking here neck out for once - hell we've sat back and spectated enough throughout history. And at least this way, if it does go wrong we can blame the pigs in charge

[crazy comie]

you didn't provide a source.

[pedro san pedro]

sorry man, dont have one.
having campaigned against ge for 3-4 years, i now tend to use my oown self as a source.

have a look at Physicans and scientists for the resposnible application of science and technology for a start -they are really well respected and have everything in layman terms.

check out a the food and health boarsd of various countries, and doi\ some searching of your own..

[crazy comie]

so you don't have a source i find that a bit dodgy.

[pedro san pedro]

what parts of the post do you want a source for?

i gave the Public Health Association of Australia and the British Medical Association
near the start, and ANZFA at the end.