Thread: Need clarification on anarcho-syndicalism, and labels

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  1. #21
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    (A) said: "Anarchism is A-political in the fact that it rejects oppressive state politics in lue of Autonomous politics. That is the Free and equal association of all members within society."

    I think the guy I was conversing with meant a.s. was a-political in the sense it (as a philosophy, or the adherents of it) literally didn't get involved in the political sphere of society. I believe his point was more that it involved theory of economics without thinking beyond that, to all the other ways in which relationship to labor and production is involved with people's lives. That it/they didn't care about government or literal politics and so did nothing as capitalist lackeys came into power and squashed all leftist political movements of nascent parties.

    I'm probably getting that all wrong, but that's my primary school understanding of a criticism of anarcho-syndicalism.

    I guess I AM curious about how a.s. as a theory does plan to get to its end point. I read about worker and general strikes, which then are supposed to lead to workers taking over control of the means of production... but as this person I spoke with claimed, that's a fallacy of anarchsim over "socialism" (or Trotsyism?) The belief that workers COULD take control of capital at all, without first eliminating or weakening the power of wealth accumulation, or who controls the police/military/prisons. He believed any attempt at workers to try to take over production would be met with overwhelming resistance and doomed to fail, unless the relations of capital and power change first. (Or, something like that... again, I'm not very clever, but I believe that's the argument.)

    I have to admit, that does sound about right.

    Does a.s. have a plan or approach to gaining a.s. without brute force workers taking over the "shop"?
    Anarcho-Syndicalism stands for Unionism. The I.W.W. is the largest Anarcho-sindicalist organisation in the world. The I.W.W. or Industrial workers of the world are a Internatal union that stands against capitalism and for workers right and workers liberation from capitalism.

    Syndicalists work towards work place democracy
    Anarchists work to end Political authoritarianism.
    Together Anarcho-syndicalism works to replace Political authoritarianism (the state) with the free association of workers (socialism)

    I would not say they are anti-communist; I say they are the most active communists left in the world.

    Communism is a society free from state/capital & class; Those are the goals of Anarcho-syndicalism/ anarcho-socialism/ Anarcho-Communims or whatever you want to call it.
    I call it Anarchism. You would call it communism. To me they are the same thing.
    "It is only by the abolition of the state, by the conquest of perfect liberty by the individual, by free agreement, association, and absolute free federation that we can reach Communism - the possession in common of our social inheritance, and the production in common of all riches." ~Peter Kropotkin
    "Let us fight to free the world - to do away with national barriers - to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness. Soldiers! in the name of democracy, let us all unite!" ~Charles Chaplin
    "Communism is Anarchy. You can't regulate or reform your way to communism; it can only be achieved by direct action against state, class and capital."
  2. #22
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    I thought it was based on Rudolph Rocker? Well, doesn't matter, I haven't really read any of him or Proudhoun, though I know the names. Seriously, what little I read, is just so above me. I hate admitting I'm a dolt, and I hate even more thinking I can't participate neither in theory discussion nor in action because I can't grok so much of the philosophy that is discussed...
    I so very wish there were a Dumber Than Dummies Guide to Left Activism.

    So, that's what anarcho-syndicalism stands AGAINST, but, what does it stand FOR? Seriously, general strike and taking over the factories is literally the only actual tactic or means I have read about a.s. What do anarcho-syndicalists today believe is the active path toward the goals?
    syndicalism is a tactic, so that is its only tactic, because it is itself a tactic

    I'm not kidding. I want an illustrated book with "See Jane. See Jane trapped into selling her labor for less than its value. See Joe. See Joe coerced into working for the profit of others, with no power or control over his hiring, firing, benefits, or use of his own time. See Joe and Jane (insert simplified step one of X anarchist/socialist/Trotskyist/Marxist action in series of actions leading toward post-capitalism)."
    how's this?

  3. #23
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    I thought it was based on Rudolph Rocker? Well, doesn't matter, I haven't really read any of him or Proudhoun, though I know the names. Seriously, what little I read, is just so above me. I hate admitting I'm a dolt, and I hate even more thinking I can't participate neither in theory discussion nor in action because I can't grok so much of the philosophy that is discussed...
    I so very wish there were a Dumber Than Dummies Guide to Left Activism.

    I'll offer the following:


    Leftism -- Want, Get






    Political Spectrum, Simplified






    ---



    So, that's what anarcho-syndicalism stands AGAINST, but, what does it stand FOR? Seriously, general strike and taking over the factories is literally the only actual tactic or means I have read about a.s. What do anarcho-syndicalists today believe is the active path toward the goals?


    syndicalism is a tactic, so that is its only tactic, because it is itself a tactic

    To be technical / precise, I'll proffer that anarcho-syndicalism can be *interpreted* as a *revolutionary strategy*, or approach.

    Here's another contextualization of it:


    [7] Syndicalism-Socialism-Communism Transition Diagram



  4. #24
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    Here's another contextualization of it
    Hi, Chris, thanks for taking the time to provide feedback! I hate to say it, but I'm afraid the first two images are a bit too clever and over-designed for their own good and kind of unintelligible. IMO.
    But that last one? Is that widely accepted? Considered "canon"? Or is the fact that syndicalism is described as next to capitalism, still fully embracing wage slavery just one version of syndicalism? This surprises me.
  5. #25
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    Hi, Chris, thanks for taking the time to provide feedback! I hate to say it, but I'm afraid the first two images are a bit too clever and over-designed for their own good and kind of unintelligible. IMO.

    Well, stylistic / aesthetic issues aside, you may want to focus on the *content* of them. Take your time, and feel free to ask me about any particulars within either one.



    But that last one? Is that widely accepted? Considered "canon"? Or is the fact that syndicalism is described as next to capitalism, still fully embracing wage slavery just one version of syndicalism? This surprises me.

    No, I won't claim any 'official' status for any of my work -- 'canon' can be *basically* helpful, as for agreement on core principles (of Marxism, etc.), but every person has to inevitably individually / cognitively 'process' political content for themselves, if they're to genuinely accept it as being valid. (Here's an illustration of hierarchy-of-meanings for any given content.)


    philosophical abstractions






    I can see that you're appreciating the bottom-up aspect of the 'Syndicalism-Socialism-Communism Transition Diagram'. I think this particular approach would be *optimal*, and it also actually interleaves with my 'labor credits' framework / approach, which I advocate:


    labor credits framework for 'communist supply & demand'



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