Tree hugging liberal Pentagon

[Exploited Class]

Leaked Pentagon report warns climate change may bring famine, war: report

LONDON (AFP) - A secret report prepared by the Pentagon warns that climate change may lead to global catastrophe costing millions of lives and is a far greater threat than terrorism.

The report was ordered by an influential US Pentagon advisor but was covered up by "US defense chiefs" for four months, until it was "obtained" by the British weekly The Observer.

Some examples given of probable scenarios in the dramatic report include:


-- Britain will have winters similar to those in current-day Siberia as European temperatures drop off radically by 2020.


-- by 2007 violent storms will make large parts of the Netherlands uninhabitable and lead to a breach in the acqueduct system in California that supplies all water to densely populated southern California


-- Europe and the United States become "virtual fortresses" trying to keep out millions of migrants whose homelands have been wiped out by rising sea levels or made unfarmable by drought.


-- "catastrophic" shortages of potable water and energy will lead to widespread war by 2020.

Coming from the Pentagon, normally a bastion of conservative politics, the report is expected to bring environmental issues to the fore in the US presidential race.

The person behind the leaked Pentagon report, Andrew Marsall, cannot be accused of the same partisan politicking.

Marsall, 82, has been an advisor for the defense department for decades, and was described by The Observer as the author of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's plans for a major transformation of the US military.



Well this should be the topic that everybody everywhere talks about. I don't think any of this will be used as fodder in the coming elections within the US.

They mention in the report how depressing and grim the outlook is for our world. I think the sad and depressing part to all of this is people will still find ways to deny that this happening, will still want to remove enviromental laws, will listen to Rush talking about how all of this is due to Volcanoes and not SUVs and Giant unchecked capitalism for profit factories.

I don't know how they can argue that the Pentagon is being liberal, tree friendly, hippies? This is very significant and it will be very hard for people to take a side opposite of the Pentagon on this report. Hopefully it isn't all forgotten about in 2 weeks.

[Exploited Class]

Just to help the idea sink in what this report states.

First, since it is from the Pentagon there is very little way to say it is politically motivated or that it isn't true. The pentagon is probably one of the least enviromental friendly organizations out there.

Second, if there ever was a report handed out out that at all replicates what you see in the movies where they say, "there is an astroid hurling its way at the earth and there is no way to stop it." this would be it.

I have to admit that I am having a hard time coming to grips with the evidence within the report. I guess I too, although always believing the enviromental reports on global warming, wanted to not believe it. I wanted them to be exagerating or incorrect in their evidence, findings and speculations.

Sobering is probably the best word to use to describe this.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

-- Britain will have winters similar to those in current-day Siberia as European temperatures drop off radically by 2020.

Sheeit. Maybe this means we will have more white christmases.

I do find this a rather odd report to some out of the pentagon, as you say- but does it actually change the pentagon's attitude? They could just release this report and then simply ignore it.

[Sabocat]

I don't doubt this report. Winters here in the Northeast U.$. have been colder and more miserable the last couple of years. In fact, we had the coldest recorded winter since 1880. Ocean sea state (wave height averages) are up as well. Oceanographers have been stating that that is a result of the global warming as well. Apparently, the Gulf Stream and North Atlantic Current is also at risk from global warming.

With the predicted flooding and all, it makes me glad I live on my boat.

[redstar2000]

A secret report prepared by the Pentagon warns that climate change may lead to global catastrophe costing millions of lives...

Yes, and then again, it may do nothing of the sort.

But it sounds like a great movie idea.

...the report is expected to bring environmental issues to the fore in the US presidential race.

Expected by who? Issues are not what American elections are about anyway.

They mention in the report how depressing and grim the outlook is for our world.

No doubt. Being cynical, I can't help but wonder who benefits from these "the world is coming to an end" scenarios?

Perhaps the military budget needs another substantial increase? To guard our "fortress" from those "hordes of refugees"?

If the refugees don't happen to show up, well, a bigger military has other uses...!

Hopefully it isn't all forgotten about in 2 weeks.

Try day after tomorrow.

First, since it is from the Pentagon there is very little way to say it is politically motivated or that it isn't true.

It's not "from the Pentagon" -- it's a report written by two guys that was paid for by the Pentagon.

The U.S. Department of Defense commissions thousands and thousands of such reports every year on just about every possible subject...it probably funds more research of all kinds than any other single source in the U.S. and maybe more than all other sources combined.

As to its "truth", who knows?

Just to take one item, from what I've seen, the situation for England if the Gulf Stream "turns off" will not be one comparable to Siberia...it will be more like Labrador. Unpleasantly cold...but not arctic.

It is certainly highly probable that there will be more imperialist wars, regardless of the state of energy/fresh water resources in coming decades. Blaming the environment may sound more plausible than ghostly "weapons of mass destruction".

But I don't think we should allow threats of environmental "catastrophe" to obscure the real reason for those wars...the implacable determination of the United States and its lackeys to build a global empire.



The Redstar2000 Papers
A site about communist ideas

[Invader Zim]

Well at long bloody last, I've been waiting for these apocalyptic scares to appear for years now, finally it seams that someone high up in the capitalist system is taking note of of what the vast majority of respected scientists have been stating for years.

Just to take one item, from what I've seen, the situation for England if the Gulf Stream "turns off" will not be one comparable to Siberia...it will be more like Labrador. Unpleasantly cold...but not arctic.

Redstar I think that you fail to realise just how cold it is in these places vast portions of the area's are periglacial, with large zones of Permafrost. I also think you underestimate the size or location of Labrador true it's not 66.5 degree's which would make it arctic, it is however in places (such as the Peninsule d'Ungava) well into 60 degree's plus, which make it polar. I'm sure we could do with the tourism generated by year round Snowboarding etc, but I'd rather be able to grow Cox's Orange Pippins, personally. Ohh and btw Siberia runs as far south as to easily be on the same Latitude as the North of the UK. The North of Scotland after all is around 58 degree's north.

Of course your right in saying that few Ice bergs will be floating past, but considering that we will have at least sporadic if not discontinuous permafrost, its not much of a consolation. I doubt we would be able to support a population of 60 million people... and the farmers think they have a hard time now.

It is certainly highly probable that there will be more imperialist wars, regardless of the state of energy/fresh water resources in coming decades.

That’s an ignorant statement even from you, the state of energy/fresh water is going to be hugely important in the future of imperialist wars. Cant support the American dream without fresh water and oil.

the implacable determination of the United States and its lackeys to build a global empire.

I doubt that they quite want a Global empire... empires are expensive, I think that Global influence is more the situation they are attempting to achieve.

[pedro san pedro]

damnamit, i'd hoped to post this, but couldn't get online.

Perhaps the military budget needs another substantial increase? To guard our "fortress" from those "hordes of refugees"?

If the refugees don't happen to show up, well, a bigger military has other uses...!

climate change is expected to be one of the major sources of refugee displacement in the coming centuary. a good example being tuavalu -150,000 pacific islanders with out an island any more. one wonders what will happen if say, bangeldesh gets flooded?

[redstar2000]

US 'does accept climate threat'

Most US policymakers do accept that climate change is a significant threat, a leading British scientist believes.

Professor Schellnhuber, formerly the German government's chief environmental adviser, welcomed a report prepared by the Pentagon which warns of the potentially disastrous consequences of climate change to Europe within decades.

He said: "It's old stuff, about the possible collapse of the thermohaline circulation which keeps the Gulf Stream flowing to north-west Europe.

"If that stopped, average temperatures in countries like the UK could drop by about five degrees.

"It's a possible 'tipping point', a critical stage in global warming. But it's only one such point.

"I try to tell politicians about a range of them - that the Indian monsoon could change, or the Sahara become green again, or the Amazon forests disappear."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/science/nature/3513559.stm



The Redstar2000 Papers
A site about communist ideas

[praxis1966]

I read about this just this afternoon in the Mother Jones daily reporting section (read article here). It sounds improbable, but definately plausible in accordance with their own assessment.

It is certainly highly probable that there will be more imperialist wars, regardless of the state of energy/fresh water resources in coming decades.

That’s an ignorant statement even from you, the state of energy/fresh water is going to be hugely important in the future of imperialist wars. Cant support the American dream without fresh water and oil.

I don't think he was discounting all together the possibility of global climate change as a cause for imperialistic warfare, just that there will most certainly be such conflict no matter what. I should say, however, that the United $tates does not, at this point, seem interested in physically colonizing the globe. It does seem more intent on creating client states for the purposes of economic exploitation, otherwise known as neo-imperialism, as is the case in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Unfortunately, we do not have a progressive occupant in the White House. As a result, our military resources are stretched so thin that it appears as though the best we can do is send 50 Marines to Haiti to fortify the embassy when what we should be doing is contributing to a U.N. lead peacekeeping mission.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Britain will have winters similar to those in current-day Siberia as European temperatures drop off radically by 2020.

As a side-note: Melbourne, Australia had its coldest January in decades this summer.

Did someone say global WARMING? judging from these quotes any sensible person would conclude that it is a myth.

Start up your SUVs, folks

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by NoXion@Feb 25 2004, 11:40 AM

Britain will have winters similar to those in current-day Siberia as European temperatures drop off radically by 2020.

As a side-note: Melbourne, Australia had its coldest January in decades this summer.

Did someone say global WARMING? judging from these quotes any sensible person would conclude that it is a myth.

Start up your SUVs, folks

Ahh the usual rubbish prodused by those wjho refuse to believe the obvious. Well sorry but saying it's cold this month doesn't mean jack shit. The UK will be colder because of the loss of the North Atlantic Drift, which takes warm air from the Equator and tropics north across the atlantic into europe, so the loss would cause it to get colder in the UK, not warmer. Maybe you should read up a bit... you know.

And individual countires annual climate is not a sign of Global or even biome annual average temperatures. So it doesnt matter that Australia is colder this January or whatever, as Australia is not the sole representative of world climate.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

To be honest, I'm not worried about global warming. If it means it will (Paradoxically) be colder in the UK, drier, and have higher sea levels (I live on a hill), then bring it on. I'm sick of this damp country.

And those refugees can sleep on the sitting room floor.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Originally posted by NoXion@Feb 25 2004, 07:40 AM

Britain will have winters similar to those in current-day Siberia as European temperatures drop off radically by 2020.

As a side-note: Melbourne, Australia had its coldest January in decades this summer.

Did someone say global WARMING? judging from these quotes any sensible person would conclude that it is a myth.

Start up your SUVs, folks

Right! Only global warming can save us now! *Buys a third SUV*

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by NoXion@Feb 25 2004, 01:09 PM
To be honest, I'm not worried about global warming. If it means it will (Paradoxically) be colder in the UK, drier, and have higher sea levels (I live on a hill), then bring it on. I'm sick of this damp country.

And those refugees can sleep on the sitting room floor.

You obviously fail to realise the full catastrophy that Global warming will entail, think of Eathiopea now, and then think in stead of a few million suffering, make it a billion or so.

But i'm sure that you'll be happy on your hill.

[Christopher]

Originally posted by redstar2000@Feb 24 2004, 04:06 PM
As to its "truth", who knows?

Wow, what helpful posting!


I've watched the weather in SO CAL change drastically since 1995. Overnight, February 12, 1995 it rained 36 inches. That was called a 100 year rain. In 1998 it rained more, a 500 year rain they said.

We haven't had a normal winter since. I've seen the hurricanes and tornados blowing where they've never been before. I noticed Paris overheated a few months back and thousands died.

Time to work together or teach our children about suffering and death to be responsible parents.

I still can't get over how helpful Redstars posts are. We can really learn from him, he knows alot.

[redstar2000]

Wow, what helpful posting!...I still can't get over how helpful Redstars posts are. We can really learn from him, he knows a lot.

Always happy to be of service.



The Redstar2000 Papers
A site about communist ideas

[DarkAngel]

I agree with most on this board. Most people arent even aware of Global Warming happening in their life time (not like most care). The only inhabitabal areas will be mountain ranges. All plains will be underwater, imagine that. New York under water. I think this will be a good wake up call to all those ignorent cappies who think some scientist somewhere will fix it..... <_<

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by DarkAngel@Feb 29 2004, 03:32 PM
I agree with most on this board. Most people arent even aware of Global Warming happening in their life time (not like most care). The only inhabitabal areas will be mountain ranges. All plains will be underwater, imagine that. New York under water. I think this will be a good wake up call to all those ignorent cappies who think some scientist somewhere will fix it..... <_<

Well not quite, i read in an interesting artical it was only estimated to be an increase of around 6-9 feat.

[Christopher]

In 1988 the EPA put the writing on the wall for Americans. They pointed at Southern California as an example of what would have to change and how much.



I clipped this article in 1988. In 1983 I seriously started to try to get all activists of anything worthy for many, to focus on teledemocracy. I called and wrote non profit org&#39;s devoted to creating teledemocracy and tried to get them to network with environmental organizations and social justice groups and the groups to contact the teledemocracy people. I tried to get others to work with me.

I had zero cooperation anywhere. Everyone liked the idea.

The most valid criticism is that the people would be unable to focus and chaos would result because peoples values were too different In 1985 I realized a simple hierarchy of values existed absolutely. The very first thing we need is our life, air and water. We share these needs absolutely.

Then folks objected claiming "imposition" or "irrelevancy" or just "disbelief" in any tangible product for anyone ever and simply said "you are the one who is all fired up about it. You do something."

I ask, "Do you like breathing good air? Do you want your kid to breath good air".

It turns our climatic balance has been triggered into a cycle artificially by the introduction of carbon into the air or other gases that determine thermal exchange to air masses. Our weather patterns are altering and famine is the result. All from behavior.

Here is the real question, Is it spiritually and ethically better to say "All we can do is take care of ourselves" or to say "Together, with understanding, we can influence enough of the right people to expand understanding and define actions that WILL WORK." and just start doing it.

Confusion. ......................... Who knows? Apathy .................. who cares?

These can all be countered by culture but now culture is tv. Understand how our ability to reason as people and then agree, can gain control of media. Last call for focus on earth.

http://algoxy.com/psych/optimize_for_peace.html