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Dear family, I am new, hope to learn and have a great time here in this forum
Hi all, i have some years being a socialist, as a result of the economic crisis and the rise of the popularity of socialism. Hope to learn and a have a good time with the sisters and brothers of this communist family revleft forums
Thanks
Hi TomLeftist, welcome to RevLeft.
I hope you find things here to learn from/about, and develop your political understanding. I'd say 'just dive in to some discussions' but I see you have 21 posts already so I guess you've already started!
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
Blake: hi, thanks for your welcome message. Yeah i was just debating with chaikatsu about the creation, the construction of a big united leftist option, a third united front composed of the whole ultra-left of the USA but it is very hard, many ultra-leftist organizations hate other ultra-leftist organizations. Or at least do not like their basic theories and specific tendencies. You know there is a lof sectarianism within the marxist ultra-left
How are you using 'ultra-left' here TomLeftist?
In my experience there is more recognition of our common heritage and positions among the 'ultra-left' (Left Communists/Impossiblists/Council Communists/Anarchist-Communists) than among the left in general (particularly Trotskyists and Stalinists).
The first Left-Communist meeting I attended (held by the International Communist Current) was also attended by a member of the Communist Workers' Organisation (part of the Internationalist Communist Tendency). The CWO member identified himself as such in the discussion, said where his organisation agreed and disagreed with the ICC, and discussed the ICC's presentation in a reasonable and comradely manner. The ICC people thanked him for his contribution and also set out areas of agreement and disagreement. I was stunned I have to say, because if that had happened at a Trotskyist meeting I'm pretty sure it would have involved a lot of uncomradely behaviour. It was really interesting (not to say attractive) to me that members of two organisations could discuss reasonably and in a comradely fashion with each other.
I'm not saying the ultra-left is perfect - it really isn't - but I do think there is more recognition of commonality, of being part of the 'red thread' or 'thin red line' than in the 'non-ultra-left'. I'd like to post a link a contribution to a discussion currently going on LibCom that goes somewhat into this, from a member of the Socialist Party of Great Britain:
http://libcom.org/forums/announcemen...comment-589154
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
Blake: Thanks a lot for your teaching me about the nature of ultra-left. I thought that ultra-left meant all political parties that advocate for a workers' state and that try to follow the founders of political socialism (Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky etc). And I thought that the socialist equality party of USA. (Which is a party that follows marxism and trotsky's writings), was an example of an ultra-leftist party. But then again, I got confused by them, because the Socialist Equality Party of USA, participates in the electoral system. And from what I've learned (I don't know i am right or wrong). The only way to overthrow the capitalist-dictatorship and replace it with a workers-dictatorship is thru an armed war of the working class and oppressed in general fighting an armed war against the armies of the capitalist ruling class.
And you are right about the lack of friendly, loving, humble behaviour in many leftist political parties, lots of insults, lots of offending and hatred by members of Socialist Equality Party of USA. I used to support them, but the majority of their leaders and their supporters are not very nice people. They are cold, like a block of ice. They are smart, their articles and news in their website WSWS.ORG are great, but i've noticed a bit of elitism in their behaviour.
I used to be elitist as well, because in the capitalist society we have in USA, people love to imitate movie artists and think that if they are super powerful, super-egocentric and bash and trash others, they will rise in living standards and self-power. But ive experienced a sort of metamorphosis from an egocentric person, toward a worried compassionate person, worried for the poor, because life is getting too painful for the majority of people of the world. The planet is turning into a hell of suffering hunger and pain. And we cannot afford to be egocentric and arrogant
Thanks a lot again for your explanation of ultra-leftist parties. And I think I will join one of those ultra-leftist movements that try to follow marxism in a more perfect way, than leftist parties and social-democratic parties
In general, parties of a Trotskyist, Stalinist or 'democratic socialist' ilk aren't counted as the 'ultra-left'. They may sometimes be called 'hard left' or just 'the left'. The 'ultra-left', generally, is a term of abuse that the Trotskyists and Stalinists use for groups that are 'even more left'.
Those groups don't always agree that they are 'ultra-left'. Often they think that 'left wing' and 'right wing' are both tendencies for the management of capitalism, whereas the 'ultra-left' represents something altogether different - real revolutionary or working class politics.
But as I say these groups are by no means perfect - all have their own problems and if what you are interested in is intervening in a relatively strong movement that feels like it might get somewhere you may as well avoid them and go back to Trotskyism because they are all tiny and have very little/no influence inside the working class.
Critique of the Gotha Programme, Pt IV: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm
No War but the Class War
Destroy All Nations
Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC): "A man whose life has been dishonorable is not entitled to escape disgrace in death."
Welcome to revleft bro.
"It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. " - Buenaventura Durutti
"The life of a single human being is worth a million times more than all the property of the richest man on earth." - Ernesto Che Guevara.
"Its Called the American dream, because you gotta be asleep to believe it". - George Carlin
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