What should be done with people who commit murder after the revolution?

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I have heard several arguments , the first one believes that murderes should be sent to rehab, others say that "an eye for an eye" kill them, and the last argument is to send to prison.
I have confused about the three issues , what do u think should be done?

[IbelieveInanarchy]

I have heard several arguments , the first one believes that murderes should be sent to rehab, others say that "an eye for an eye" kill them, and the last argument is to send to prison.
I have confused about the three issues , what do u think should be done?

In my opinion prison.
-rehab, how does one rehab from a murder? How can one rehab from beating his wife to death? How do you know he is rehabilitated?
-death sentence: you can never be 100% sure in all cases if someone commited said murder.
- prison: to me seems the least infringement on someones natural right of freedom.

To elaborate, in a communist society, the most prevalent causes of crimes like this: bigotry, inequality and authoritarianism will be gone. However there will still be people who want to exploit others, be it for sickness of the mind or just plain setting your interests over all others. These people have no right to exploit this society so the society will need a system to separate them from this society. To me this should be prison in case of overly violent crimes like murder. For less serious crimes like theft(which most likely wouldn't occur) or other ways of trying to appropriate capital in your own hands, could be dealt with expelling them from the commune.

[Blake's Baby]

Nice 'Anarchist' there who believes in prison.

There have been multiple threads about this. My thinking is set out in this one:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/threads/17...ionary-society

[(A)]

It depends on what happens after the revolution.
If state/s are formed nothing will change. Anything from mandatory rehab/conditioning to the death penalty depending on the rules dictated by the rulers of the society where the act took place.
---
Imagine you live in an anarchist city. Within this city their are hundreds of unions and collectives to which a person may belong.
An individual may belong to three workers unions and a dozen other types of collectives from a neighborhood watch to a trans-humanist club.

If someone commits a murder it will affect their standing within all of the community's within the city. Two of the unions may eject the person while the other wishes to keep them. The trans-humanists might punish the murderer by not offering their community's services until he makes amends. The family of the victim may seek to kill this person so it would logically stand that they would seek refuge with a community that protects and rehabs violent offenders.

Without the state everyone would again become responsible for their actions. If you are a murderer your safety will not be protected by the law; only by the community's that support your actions.
If you kill someone you will bear the full result of your actions as society will affect your fate via direct action. The Democratic action of society.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

Nice 'Anarchist' there who believes in prison.

There have been multiple threads about this. My thinking is set out in this one:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/threads/17...ionary-society

How is this inconsistent? It is extended self-defence to imprison someone who tries to murder people. If someone tries to murder me and i stab him to death, that unarguably would be a position any anarchist could defend, how is me subduing him and preventing him from killing somehow anti-anarchist?

as one could put it: it's better to hurt one if that means 100 are not hurt in the future.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

What about rapists, child porn users ?
I think rapists should be sent to prison, child porn users should be sent to rehab.

[almost]

just murder them

[RedAnarchist]

just murder them

Then what do we do with the murderers of murderers?

[IbelieveInanarchy]

"It is not likely that the most violent people in society can be contained and organized to sustain themselves without some coercion and social control. We must therefore concede that those who reject the benefits of the Anarchist society and chose to live apart from it should not expect Anarchist benevolence when they are banished."

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/scott-of-the-insurgency-culture-collective-the-anarchist-response-to-crime

[(A)]

"It is not likely that the most violent people in society can be contained and organized to sustain themselves without some coercion and social control. We must therefore concede that those who reject the benefits of the Anarchist society and chose to live apart from it should not expect Anarchist benevolence when they are banished."

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/scott-of-the-insurgency-culture-collective-the-anarchist-response-to-crime

I think tho that they will find it. I could see organizations forming to try and rehab 'criminals' and protect their family's. Remember people dont usually stand alone in society.
They have family's and friends who will often stand with them despite their unethical acts.

It is logical that "banishing" will be less of a reality then spurning or not working with the 'criminals' and depending on the severity and situation of the act; community self-defense.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

I think tho that they will find it. I could see organizations forming to try and rehab 'criminals' and protect their family's. Remember people dont usually stand alone in society.
They have family's and friends who will often stand with them despite their unethical acts.

It is logical that "banishing" will be less of a reality then spurning or not working with the 'criminals' and depending on the severity and situation of the act; community self-defense.

of course prisons are a last resort for people who are very violent or criminally insane. I don't think people seriously consider rehabilitating a serial killer/rapist. People who steal or do something which isn't violent of course do not deserve to go to prison over this.

[(A)]

Anarchists are philosophically against prisons. An anarchist society would have groups dedicated to freeing prisoners and they should.
I would be a part of that organization. I would fight to rehab murderers instead of abandoning all pretext of Anarchism and imprisoning people against their will.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

Anarchists are philosophically against prisons. An anarchist society would have groups dedicated to freeing prisoners and they should.
I would be a part of that organization. I would fight to rehab murderers instead of abandoning all pretext of Anarchism and imprisoning people against their will.

How would you rehab Charles Manson and Josef Mengele? I have the feeling that you seek principle over practicality when you regard prisons in relation to severe criminals. You don't actually think that every pathological condition of the mind can be cured? I am not speaking of prison lightly as if it would be thrown around for the most petty crimes. The most severe criminals who commit torture-murders and crimes of this kind are a threat to anarchist society as a whole. To think that anyone has the right to use violence without the commune reacting is, to me, a very counter-revolutionary thought. I know you are more intelligent then this, so I am probably mistaking what you mean with your post. Please explain to me how you rehab murderers like the examples I asked about earlier in this post. Do you mean try to rehab them in a prison or do you mean rehabbing them when they still roam free? I hope you do not seriously consider the latter.

[(A)]

Do you think Charles Manson and Josef Mengele where mentally stable? You believe they where in their right mind?

I am not saying that serial killers who are actively trying to continue their acts would be have to killed as a matter of self-defence.
I am saying that people who have committed what is considered an unethical act and wants to be reformed should not be sent to prison because of the act.
The goal would be to rehabilitate the clinically insane and unstable people who have committed these acts so that they can continue to contribute to society.

I am not speaking of prison lightly as if it would be thrown around for the most petty crimes.

Yes but again philosophically; who would wield the authority to dictate was was a crime.
Murder & Rape; OK makes sense
Theft?
Public urination?
Public indecency?
What is indecent?
Homosexuality was a criminal act. What is to prevent the authority from declaring it so again.

An Anarchist society is one where their would be no Universal law. No legitimized violence.
Locking someone up legally is Legitimized violence.

We dont need legal systems to define right and wrong and to possess legitimized violence. Anything that the state can do we can do better.

Here is an argument supporting your idea of "anarchist" prisons

And here is the counter argument.

*Note I'm not advocating either specifically just presenting them.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

Do you think Charles Manson and Josef Mengele where mentally stable? You believe they where in their right mind?

I am not saying that serial killers who are actively trying to continue their acts would be have to killed as a matter of self-defence.
I am saying that people who have committed what is considered an unethical act and wants to be reformed should not be sent to prison because of the act.
The goal would be to rehabilitate the clinically insane and unstable people who have committed these acts so that they can continue to contribute to society.



Yes but again philosophically; who would wield the authority to dictate was was a crime.
Murder & Rape; OK makes sense
Theft?
Public urination?
Public indecency?
What is indecent?
Homosexuality was a criminal act. What is to prevent the authority from declaring it so again.

An Anarchist society is one where their would be no Universal law. No legitimized violence.
Locking someone up legally is Legitimized violence.

We dont need legal systems to define right and wrong and to possess legitimized violence. Anything that the state can do we can do better.

Here is an argument supporting your idea of "anarchist" prisons

And here is the counter argument.

*Note I'm not advocating either specifically just presenting them.

I didn't mean the crimes like theft and public urination as going for prison. What im trying to say is that for the most violent crimes like rape and murder, there seems to me to be no other way to combat this than with prison. I in no way intend to make anything non-violent worthy of a prison sentence and you are right that we don't need legal systems like the onesunder states, however anarchy is not without rules, if you inflict harm to the anarchist society they have every right to repel you from their community. In modern times, as shown in the article i linked earlier, there is no efficient way to banish someone to a place where they can fend for themselves and be separate from your community. There is no effective way to repel the most violent from your commune, so you have to segregate them from you by using a prison. If there are communes willing to take in murderers and who can guarantee that these murderers will not attack the non-murderer communes, then a prison would be unethical. If there are communes dedicated to rehabilitating murderers, then i have no problem with that, my issue here is that if there is no other possibility to stop the violence of rapists and murderers, prison is a viable option.