Thread: What did Marx mean when he said this?

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    Default What did Marx mean when he said this?

    In the German Ideology, Marx says that "Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence." From what I can understand Marx is saying that Communism is not just a 'nice idea' to try out, but the next inevitable stage of human development, but i'm not entirely secure in my interpretation. I know that this is one of his most important quotations and many people cite it in debates, so I feel that it is important to get other perspectives.
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    In the German Ideology, Marx says that "Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence." From what I can understand Marx is saying that Communism is not just a 'nice idea' to try out, but the next inevitable stage of human development, but i'm not entirely secure in my interpretation. I know that this is one of his most important quotations and many people cite it in debates, so I feel that it is important to get other perspectives.
    Yeah, you are right. As Marx believed in a materialist conception of history it followed that communism was not simply a "choice" but was the product of underlying economic laws. At the heart of it is the contradiction between the development of the productive forces and production relations. What this means is basically that as capitalism develops, production develops from small scale individual production into large scale mass production. This both centralises the ownership of capital but also means that production is socialised (undertaken by the workers in common). This means the "private property" no longer corresponds to the way in which production operates and is in conflict with it, necessitating it's replacement with a system based on common ownership of the means of production.

    Here as his exact words on the subject from Chapter 32. Historical Tendency of Capitalist Accumulation (Capital Volume one).
    What does the primitive accumulation of capital, i.e., its historical genesis, resolve itself into? In so far as it is not immediate transformation of slaves and serfs into wage labourers, and therefore a mere change of form, it only means the expropriation of the immediate producers, i.e., the dissolution of private property based on the labour of its owner. Private property, as the antithesis to social, collective property, exists only where the means of labour and the external conditions of labour belong to private individuals. But according as these private individuals are labourers or not labourers, private property has a different character. The numberless shades, that it at first sight presents, correspond to the intermediate stages lying between these two extremes. The private property of the labourer in his means of production is the foundation of petty industry, whether agricultural, manufacturing, or both; petty industry, again, is an essential condition for the development of social production and of the free individuality of the labourer himself. Of course, this petty mode of production exists also under slavery, serfdom, and other states of dependence. But it flourishes, it lets loose its whole energy, it attains its adequate classical form, only where the labourer is the private owner of his own means of labour set in action by himself: the peasant of the land which he cultivates, the artisan of the tool which he handles as a virtuoso. This mode of production presupposes parcelling of the soil and scattering of the other means of production. As it excludes the concentration of these means of production, so also it excludes cooperation, division of labour within each separate process of production, the control over, and the productive application of the forces of Nature by society, and the free development of the social productive powers. It is compatible only with a system of production, and a society, moving within narrow and more or less primitive bounds. To perpetuate it would be, as Pecqueur rightly says, “to decree universal mediocrity". At a certain stage of development, it brings forth the material agencies for its own dissolution. From that moment new forces and new passions spring up in the bosom of society; but the old social organisation fetters them and keeps them down. It must be annihilated; it is annihilated. Its annihilation, the transformation of the individualised and scattered means of production into socially concentrated ones, of the pigmy property of the many into the huge property of the few, the expropriation of the great mass of the people from the soil, from the means of subsistence, and from the means of labour, this fearful and painful expropriation of the mass of the people forms the prelude to the history of capital. It comprises a series of forcible methods, of which we have passed in review only those that have been epoch-making as methods of the primitive accumulation of capital. The expropriation of the immediate producers was accomplished with merciless Vandalism, and under the stimulus of passions the most infamous, the most sordid, the pettiest, the most meanly odious. Self-earned private property, that is based, so to say, on the fusing together of the isolated, independent labouring individual with the conditions of his labour, is supplanted by capitalistic private property, which rests on exploitation of the nominally free labour of others, i.e., on wage labour.

    As soon as this process of transformation has sufficiently decomposed the old society from top to bottom, as soon as the labourers are turned into proletarians, their means of labour into capital, as soon as the capitalist mode of production stands on its own feet, then the further socialisation of labour and further transformation of the land and other means of production into socially exploited and, therefore, common means of production, as well as the further expropriation of private proprietors, takes a new form. That which is now to be expropriated is no longer the labourer working for himself, but the capitalist exploiting many labourers. This expropriation is accomplished by the action of the immanent laws of capitalistic production itself, by the centralisation of capital. One capitalist always kills many. Hand in hand with this centralisation, or this expropriation of many capitalists by few, develop, on an ever-extending scale, the cooperative form of the labour process, the conscious technical application of science, the methodical cultivation of the soil, the transformation of the instruments of labour into instruments of labour only usable in common, the economising of all means of production by their use as means of production of combined, socialised labour, the entanglement of all peoples in the net of the world market, and with this, the international character of the capitalistic regime. Along with the constantly diminishing number of the magnates of capital, who usurp and monopolise all advantages of this process of transformation, grows the mass of misery, oppression, slavery, degradation, exploitation; but with this too grows the revolt of the working class, a class always increasing in numbers, and disciplined, united, organised by the very mechanism of the process of capitalist production itself. The monopoly of capital becomes a fetter upon the mode of production, which has sprung up and flourished along with, and under it. Centralisation of the means of production and socialisation of labour at last reach a point where they become incompatible with their capitalist integument. This integument is burst asunder. The knell of capitalist private property sounds. The expropriators are expropriated.

    The capitalist mode of appropriation, the result of the capitalist mode of production, produces capitalist private property. This is the first negation of individual private property, as founded on the labour of the proprietor. But capitalist production begets, with the inexorability of a law of Nature, its own negation. It is the negation of negation. This does not re-establish private property for the producer, but gives him individual property based on the acquisition of the capitalist era: i.e., on cooperation and the possession in common of the land and of the means of production.
    The transformation of scattered private property, arising from individual labour, into capitalist private property is, naturally, a process, incomparably more protracted, violent, and difficult, than the transformation of capitalistic private property, already practically resting on socialised production, into socialised property. In the former case, we had the expropriation of the mass of the people by a few usurpers; in the latter, we have the expropriation of a few usurpers by the mass of the people.
    Last edited by Laika; 17th April 2016 at 06:15.
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    In fact, the opposite is true: There is nothing inevitable about communism in the way that it is the necessary path "history" will take regardless of the will of humans, as for example Mao thought. This notion fails to realize that history is nothing but the active, social reproduction of the conditions of the lives of men and women. Just as economy, history does not exist self-sufficiently in that it is a changing environment humans necessarily have to adapt to as if they were animals. Humans create and change their own environment. Likewise, economy or production is not independent of humans either, of course. Think about it, if communism really were the inevitable result of "economic laws", what is the point of politics? Why don't we just sit back and wait for a new future? Why did Marx surrender his whole life to communism, willing to take the risk of persecution? Why did Engels get angry with him when he didn't finish "Capital" already and why was this task carried on by Engels? If communism develops regardless of humans and their political engagement, they could have had a comfortable life, but for some reason they didn't want to. And that is simply because communism is necessarily political, ideological, i.e. part of human consciousness and human will. You may respond: "Everything you say is true, but conscioussness and will are determined by the economy" etc. But this notion does not only contradict various statements by Marx, Engels and Lenin, it is purely illogical. Can you be conscious of those "economic laws" without altering their effect on our consciousness? If you say that one cannot, then you are not less superstitious than those neuroscientists who discuss neurological determinism or those humanists who believe that humans will organically build a better society for "evolutionary" reasons, and so on. The point of science, the point of knowing something is to attain the ability to change this something. This is what is meant by practical relevance: The conscious dominance over the object one approaches before or in congruence with their scientific observation. Natural science is the mastery of nature, and historical materialism is the mastery of social conditions. Marx once said in his "18th Brumaire" that "[m]en make their own history [...] but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past". Considering that Marxism has been distorted to the point where even radical leftists misinterpret it regularly, this statement should be stressed the other way around: Men and women make their history in relation to already existing conditions but they still make their own history.

    What Marx and Engels meant, when they said that communism is not an ideal but a real movement, is more than just "this is not a utopia", and it's not because they discovered certain "laws". Marx and Engels criticized the "utopian socialists" on the basis that their opposition to capitalism was, generally speaking, confined to moral judgements and detailed descriptions of societies as fruitions of those moral principles. In other words, the desires of the early socialists were utopian because, in their minds, socialism was merely an idea. Marxism is a scientific field which aims to provide knowledge of the historical tendencies of the present, and furthermore the real possibility of socialism as an accentuation of those. The point is to be sensible of presently prevailing antagonisms and to consciously take a side, the progressive one, in order to make people politically aware and perhaps even to radicalize them. With Marxism, communism becomes a political program. That socialism is a movement means that it is not simply a future society with certain features but that it is a matter of the here and now, that communist politics (class struggle) is realpolitik insofar as it relates to a historical process. Our desire for a communist society is grounded in and has implications for our actual, daily life. Everytime a worker stands up for his rights, everytime a fascist gets beaten up - this is essentially communism.
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    Perhaps you misunderstood, I am not a determinist. I probably should have said 'logical' instead of 'inevitable'. I get that it is a movement of the here and now, but wouldn't a communist society of the future, with certain features (Workers control over production etc...) still be a goal of the movement? I've also heard some people use the quote against socialism in one state, and the concept of 'building socialism' etc... What's your take on this?
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    I get that it is a movement of the here and now, but wouldn't a communist society of the future, with certain features (Workers control over production etc...) still be a goal of the movement?
    Yes, but the striving for a "goal" is nevertheless a matter of the here and now. Hence the emphasis on "movement". We anticipate the future in relation to the present. That is to say, the path of society's development (or the one we expect/want it to take) follows a "linear line" only insofar as it relates to current antagonisms. What this means is that communism is the ideology that provides the (scientific) language to attack one's oppression by capitalist relations. The desire to take control over the means of production first and foremost emanates from the belief that only this will bring one's discontent to an end. Of course, I'm not saying that there is no such thing as a communist society which can be qualified as communism. But this is an approach to the matter on the level of formal logic. As a dialectician, Marx insisted on the eternity of movement, that is, the constant changing of all things which is or seems to be "contradictory". Thus, communism has to be understood as something that arises from capitalism. I'd like to go into detail but I'm afraid I'm lacking the time to do so. Hopefully it's clear what I mean.

    I've also heard some people use the quote against socialism in one state, and the concept of 'building socialism' etc... What's your take on this?
    "'Socialism' in one country" is anti-Marxist in nature and socialism cannot be "built", but I don't quite get the context. The reason why I oppose "'socialism' in one country" is that it is a matter of the past, that is to say, it has to be viewed in relation to the more or less unique conditions of the 20th century. When people advocate it today, it is generally, if not always, combined with nationalism and a certain degree of defeatism (such as "How would an international revolution be possible?", etc.)
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    I always viewed Marx as a theorist rather than a political figure. He was not the founder of Communism. His theory was used to develop Communism. Your quote is just one example of Marx the theorist.

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