Thread: Trump may not be a fascist.....

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  1. #1
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    Default Trump may not be a fascist.....

    ....but he certaintly likes the trappings of it.
    + YouTube Video
    ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


    That's a trio of young girls, decked out in American cosplay, singing a jaunty tune about crushing America's enemies and singing of the glory of President Trump and the need for strength or 'get crushed every time'.

    OK, I know that in really technical terms Trump isn't close to the fascism of Mussolini or Hitler.....but he really is increasingly starting to look like a rather oafish version of Buzz Windrip (literature reference!). At this point all he really needs now is his own group of uniformed thugs to push people around (instead of just random supporters at rallies).

    For the record, I doubt that Trump will actually win the Presidency, or even get the GOP nomination for that matter. But what does concern me is that he's managed to set a rather scary precedent for openly Far Right politics in this country. At this point those on the right have had to hide their fascist tendencies underneath down home goodness and 'christian' values. But Trump has broken that taboo, and considering that yet another financial crisis seems to loom over the horizon......

    Let's just say that I'm no really afraid of Trump.

    I'm afraid of the person that's going to appear AFTER Trump.
    "I've never read Marx's Capital, but I've got the marks of capital all over my body." -Big Bill Haywood

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    ....but he certaintly likes the trappings of it.
    + YouTube Video
    ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


    That's a trio of young girls, decked out in American cosplay, singing a jaunty tune about crushing America's enemies and singing of the glory of President Trump and the need for strength or 'get crushed every time'.

    OK, I know that in really technical terms Trump isn't close to the fascism of Mussolini or Hitler.....but he really is increasingly starting to look like a rather oafish version of Buzz Windrip (literature reference!). At this point all he really needs now is his own group of uniformed thugs to push people around (instead of just random supporters at rallies).

    For the record, I doubt that Trump will actually win the Presidency, or even get the GOP nomination for that matter. But what does concern me is that he's managed to set a rather scary precedent for openly Far Right politics in this country. At this point those on the right have had to hide their fascist tendencies underneath down home goodness and 'christian' values. But Trump has broken that taboo, and considering that yet another financial crisis seems to loom over the horizon......

    Let's just say that I'm no really afraid of Trump.

    I'm afraid of the person that's going to appear AFTER Trump.
    Ha, sounds to me like you haven't heard his most recent campaign ad:

    "Obama and his administration refuse to call it, but guns don't kill people, Radical Islamic Terrorists do. That's why Donald Trump is proposing a temporary ban on Muslims entering the US (picture of San Bernadino shooters). The absolute largest threat to the United States is ISIS, which is why Trump is going to bring the fight to them and cut the head off of ISIS, and take their oil (picture of bombing an oil refinery. Or a town). And to put a stop to illegal immigrants taking American jobs, Trump is going to build a wall, and make Mexico pay for it (picture of what looks like the wall in Israel). 'It's time to make America great again!'"

    Sounds like fascism to me. It's all there. National revival, racism, restriction of liberties, scape-goating a religion, emphasis on war and violence, "it's everyone else's fault."

    I wouldn't be surprised if he called for the burning down of the capitol and blamed the democrats/socialists/communists/everything he thinks his opponents are. Plus he's already accused Sanders of being a communist. If he did win, I can see him using those new-found executive powers to order Sanders and Clinton arrested as terrorists, perhaps assassinated.

    I can see parallels to Germany, election time, pre-WW2. Left Vs. Right, failure of economy, etc. Even if it's not the actual left speaking, we will surely suffer for it.
    "If you consider an outcry against Stalinist mass murder and its justification a "dramatic moralist outcry" then how about an undramatic, unmoral outcry: "Fuck you!""-Red Dave
  3. #3
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    Donald Trump isn't a fascist but he sure seems to revel in play acting one.

    By the way that video is probably the worst thing I've seen in my entire life.

    Sounds like fascism to me. It's all there. National revival, racism, restriction of liberties, scape-goating a religion, emphasis on war and violence, "it's everyone else's fault."
    Fascists might call for those things, but so do any number of rightwing populist movements. Call me when he has an actual paramilitary group and coherent, hyper-centralized political movement.
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    On the contrary, such obscene spectacles are and have always been inherent to Fascism. Even Islamism has these. You don't think such obscenity, or comparable forms of obscenity, are present for Putin, Orban, le Pen, Hamas, Hezbollah, and so on? they are.

    It's Fascism's pure opportunism, conveying its messages through what it conceives the 'stupid masses' need. This is pure Fascist opportunism and nothing more.
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    Here's an interesting read on his family history. His father was a member (though Trump denies it) of the New York chapter of the Klan and was arrested in a 1927 brawl with the police at a rally.

    http://www.nytimes.com/politics/firs...-in-1927/?_r=0

    http://ahtribune.com/us/2016-electio...ather-kkk.html
    Last edited by Turinbaar; 15th January 2016 at 04:39.
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    On the contrary, such obscene spectacles are and have always been inherent to Fascism. Even Islamism has these. You don't think such obscenity, or comparable forms of obscenity, are present for Putin, Orban, le Pen, Hamas, Hezbollah, and so on? they are.
    I don't think anybody here is denying that fascism utilizes such spectacles. They're not exclusive to fascism, but yes of course fascists utilize them.

    That said as far as fascist spectacle is concerned, this is pretty pathetic compared to the Nuremberg rallies.
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    That shit is intolerable in my opinion... The use of little girls for propaganda like that is just disgusting too, but he'll never win. Or at least I hope he won't in the future.
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    I don't think anybody here is denying that fascism utilizes such spectacles. They're not exclusive to fascism, but yes of course fascists utilize them.

    That said as far as fascist spectacle is concerned, this is pretty pathetic compared to the Nuremberg rallies.
    I think that it is a mistake to assume fascism does not evolve with time. Anarchism and Communism certainly have, which is why we have so many different tendencies. Tactics haven't really done well in that regard

    Followers change, as do the tactics. Let's not forget our admins' decision to classify Daesh as fascist and Sparts as fascist apologists.

    Right now of course there are no uniformed thugs. There are enough anti-fascists in the US to simply stomp such deliberate violence. So roving bands of thugs technically unaffiliated with Trump get a "pass." Simply rogue psychopaths, or whatever avoids a PR disaster. Violence has been inflicted at Trump rallies against opponents with Trump simply watching, or in one or two cases, supporting those actions. The current establishment has in interest in keeping fascists out of power, so they wouldn't exactly support fascist actions, even if they repress the same groups.
    "If you consider an outcry against Stalinist mass murder and its justification a "dramatic moralist outcry" then how about an undramatic, unmoral outcry: "Fuck you!""-Red Dave
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    Sounds like fascism to me. It's all there. National revival, racism, restriction of liberties, scape-goating a religion, emphasis on war and violence, "it's everyone else's fault."
    I can't see it. It's got (most) of the elements, but there's no organized social/political movement with Trump at the head. America's constitutional and electoral system tends to sideline such movements; it's (partly) why the KKK had to work within the old Democratic Party and (partly) why the mass-based Socialist Party never got off the ground.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he called for the burning down of the capitol and blamed the democrats/socialists/communists/everything he thinks his opponents are. Plus he's already accused Sanders of being a communist. If he did win, I can see him using those new-found executive powers to order Sanders and Clinton arrested as terrorists, perhaps assassinated.
    Trump's caricature of "the opposition" is less partisan/ideological and more social/nationalist. He castigates the "elites" (both in the GOP and the DNC) while bashing "politically-correct" sentiment and perceived anti-Americanism, whether it emanates from social critique (BLM) or simply being nonwhite.

    Also I haven't heard of him calling Sanders a communist, but if he did, it's good to know that old-fashioned red-baiting is still alive in America

    I can see parallels to Germany, election time, pre-WW2. Left Vs. Right, failure of economy, etc. Even if it's not the actual left speaking, we will surely suffer for it.
    Suffer we will, and not just for our institutional weakness in the Age of Trump.
    Last edited by ComradeAllende; 15th January 2016 at 01:57. Reason: grammar
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  10. #10
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    I think that it is a mistake to assume fascism does not evolve with time. Anarchism and Communism certainly have, which is why we have so many different tendencies. Tactics haven't really done well in that regard

    Followers change, as do the tactics. Let's not forget our admins' decision to classify Daesh as fascist and Sparts as fascist apologists.
    Sure, the formulation of fascism changes in different historical contexts, but the point I'm making is that not all reactionary populists are intrinsically fascist, although they may be similar.

    Also, I'm not saying Trump's followers aren't potential fascists or that he can't function as the Duce figure, the movement behind him is pretty clearly open to those forms of politics.

    Right now of course there are no uniformed thugs. There are enough anti-fascists in the US to simply stomp such deliberate violence. So roving bands of thugs technically unaffiliated with Trump get a "pass." Simply rogue psychopaths, or whatever avoids a PR disaster. Violence has been inflicted at Trump rallies against opponents with Trump simply watching, or in one or two cases, supporting those actions. The current establishment has in interest in keeping fascists out of power, so they wouldn't exactly support fascist actions, even if they repress the same groups.
    The GOP establishment is actually pretty ambivalent towards Trump.

    As for the number of antifascists ... I'm not so sure if it's the strength of antifascism that keeps them at arm's length. I think it's the historical success and power of American classical liberalism.
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  12. #11
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    I wouldn't be surprised if he called for the burning down of the capitol and blamed the democrats/socialists/communists/everything he thinks his opponents are. Plus he's already accused Sanders of being a communist. If he did win, I can see him using those new-found executive powers to order Sanders and Clinton arrested as terrorists, perhaps assassinated.
    I don't think Trump really cares about any of this stuff, he just wants to be president because he's an egomaniac. There's no reason to assume he'll just start assassinating members of congress or whatever.
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    Be thankful you don't have Rupert Murdoch campaigning to be President. He is like royalty in the UK which all politicians bow too.

    You will listen to what the Daily Mail says and you will like it.
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    Trump's daughter is Jewish.
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    Trump's daughter is Jewish.
    What does this have to do with anything?
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    Trump's daughter is Jewish.
    It is a mistake to think of fascism as inherently antisemitic, even though it is certainly true that fascism as an ideology is more likely to target groups seen as too "cosmopolitan". The Italian fascists did not adopt antisemitism as a ruling policy until Hitler pressured them to, and there are fascist-in-all-but-name strains in the more extreme wings of the Zionist movement in Israel.

    That doesn't inherently justify the claim that Trump is a fascist, but it doesn't mean that you can use any connection he has to Jews to prove he isn't.
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    Holy shit! Donald Trump's like something out of some 70s-90s dystopian sci-fi. He reminds me of that politician in The Dead Zone. Like with the outrageous, demagogic, nonsensical platform.
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    Maybe Trump is not yet a fascist for now because, he has no full authority to implement rules. But, what if he win in presidential election then he will have authority and power to implement new rules. There will be also a possibility that he can be a fascist too, if he decide to be fascist.
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    Default A fascist by any name stinks the same.

    "OK, I know that in really technical terms Trump isn't close to the fascism of Mussolini or Hitler."

    Why what sort of wig does he need and what sort of flag should he wave?
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    Those poor kids...

    Anyway, I agree with the OP in that it's not Trump I'm scared of (because Trump is a professional bullshitter who probably only believes about 10% of what he says) but its the ideas he is promoting that scares me. There actually seems to be a fairly large section of society who hear Trump say "ban all muslims" and respond with cheers. Absolutely disgusting precedent to set.
  23. #20
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    Trump is no Hitler, and no Mussolini.

    But he very much looks like something almost as dangerous: an American Berlusconi.

    Luís Henrique
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    Falsely attributed to Lenin
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