Thread: Understanding the Left's stance toward Sharia Law

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  1. #81
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    None of the negative features named about religious courts would be possible to get away with in a communist society by definition, at least. Voluntary courts with no power to enforce gender discrimination, etc. would have to limit their activity to fit the values of society as (in the present legal context) they already do; making new laws to repress them further based on things which are already illegal is a nonsense. Or for the purposes of this thread and forum, things which would already be banned or similarly resolved in the kind of society that revolutionary leftists fight for.
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    So, to boil it down, you're only looking at *foreign policy* and not *domestic policy* -- where the Western paradigm wins-out by a *long shot*.
    The thing is, I'm not playing a game whereby Islamic fundamentalism wins more points because it causes less death and is thus "better than" liberal democracy, if that's what you're implying.

    Which is why it's hard to answer the question of what western leftists should do about Middle Eastern domestic policy. Foreign policy ideas we've tried have made matters worse, by destroying local left-wing opposition, and immiserating and radicalizing the population. As such, presenting the left as a viable and vital alternative is really the only way we can help.
    It is all the more clear what we have to accomplish at present: I am referring to ruthless criticism of all that exists.
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    Who, the communist militias who are probably shooting at them this very moment, or their massive numbers of international supporters? Either way, 'benign' would seem an odd word.

    This is of course a complete fabrication; religious courts are free to operate in countries with nominal freedom of religion like the US, only with voluntary power. This is the status quo which people ranting against "sharia law" as a domestic political issue mean to overturn. It just isn't fashionable to admit they'd as happily do this to Jews, Catholics etc. as to Muslims; or perhaps it is hoped that laws intended to repress religious practice will only be enforced against Muslims if a racist enough discourse is maintained.

    But religious courts -- *if* they actually have the latitude you're claiming that they do -- do not have legal *supremacy* over civil (nationalist)(secular) courts.



    And your position on the Communist militias who shoot at them every day -- ?

    (They're being bombed by Erdogan and his fervently pro-Daesh NATO cohorts.)

    It should be fairly clear by now that I'm definitively anti-ISIS (Islamic fundamentalism).
  4. #84
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    I don't think that Western military forces can beat ISIS or end fanatical Islamism in a broader sense. It is largely incumbent upon Muslims to do this. I do think that the Western left might play a role in this, although I freely admit that my thoughts here are not as fully developed as they should be. I think the left must present itself as an alternative to Islamism. Again, I think Rafiq's post is insightful in this regard: Muslims must recognize communism to be a way to end their oppression in a dignified manner that doesn't entail submission. In a sense, what the left ought to be doing is making its presence known and making itself available in areas where ISIS is in danger of gaining a foothold. Try to create a dialogue with the Islamic world in general, especially those who would be sympathetic to secularism. The handful of Muslims I am friendly with, for example, don't really care much about their religion and practice it mostly out of habit. I'm sure there are many others like them.

    If all of this seems vague, it's because it's a difficult question, and I'm not one to pretend to have all the answers. I do think you made a good point in asserting that the left lacks a clear analysis of what to do with ISIS. Perhaps we should all be looking deeper into this question.

    Out of curiosity, do you have a position or recommendation?

    Yes, please see my previous post -- I'm definitively anti-ISIS (Islamic fundamentalism) because of their violently insular domestic *and* foreign policy.
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    [IMG]https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fnicedeb.files.wordpress.com%2F201 4%2F10%2Fb0mpqsuceaancmm.jpg%3Fw%3D780&f=1[IMG][IMG]https://communismeouvrier.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/kobanej.jpg[IMG][IMG]http://www.signalfire.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/sibel-yilmaz-14122014.jpg[IMG]

    Now, beyond spouting cryptoracist propaganda on forums, where you call them by their preferred, aspirational name ISIS, what are you doing about Daesh?

    How *dare* you -- and *fuck you* while I'm at it -- to slur me with the 'racist' term.

    You'd better explain your reasoning on this, to characterize my politics this way.
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    The problem comes when, say, the US military bombs local communist positions and then claims they fired at Daesh (using the fascistic theocrat scum's preferred and aspirational name, ISIS or IS or ISIL, which I don't even support saying). There is no possible way for, in this case, US leftists to fight Daesh by supporting the USAF campaigns in practice or in propaganda. We can only offer solidarity and pass the mic to the comrades who engage Daesh in combat and die for the cause of its total destruction.
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    How *dare* you -- and *fuck you* while I'm at it -- to slur me with the 'racist' term.
    I have not done so, of course.

    You'd better explain your reasoning on this, to characterize my politics this way.
    First, you need to deal with your entitlement issues. I don't owe you anything and did nothing to deserve your abuse:
    and *fuck you* while I'm at
    Second, I would - if I had any interest in your histrionic rationalizations - ask you to explain your several and bizarre logical leaps that justify slandering a critique of spreading cryptoracist propaganda, which, for example, people like Obama and Carson do every day, as "to slur me with the 'racist' term". Not only was I describing a specific behavior, I specifically said "cryptoracist propaganda" as in the words and imagery of political tendencies who hide their racist nature, meaning it's clearly possible for a random person on the internet to do so without racist intent.

    I have no reason to believe you aren't racist, nor do I care about what you believe deep in your heart of hearts. We're discussing the speech acts that actually occurred and the social forces they give aid and comfort to.
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    The thing is, I'm not playing a game whereby Islamic fundamentalism wins more points because it causes less death and is thus "better than" liberal democracy, if that's what you're implying.

    Which is why it's hard to answer the question of what western leftists should do about Middle Eastern domestic policy.

    How about rebuffing Sharia (or *any* religious-sectarian) legal paradigm, for starters -- ?



    Foreign policy ideas we

    'We' -- ?

    Why even bother identifying yourself in association with the U.S. and Western imperialism -- ?



    we've tried have made matters worse, by destroying local left-wing opposition, and immiserating and radicalizing the population.

    Agreed.



    As such, presenting the left as a viable and vital alternative is really the only way we can help.

    When *I* think of the left, I think of this:



    http://www.cpbml.org.uk/news/law-soc...haria-guidance

    Don't imagine this will be the last we hear on the subject of Sharia however a positive outcome a complete reversal of the Law Society's position .

    The Law Society has withdrawn its guidance on inheritance under sharia law (see ‘Shariafication’ of British law attacked), after a widespread and fierce campaign called it a “gross dereliction of duty” and demanded its removal. The written “practice note” had advised that under sharia law illegitimate children, divorced spouses and non-muslims could not inherit, and that women were entitled to just half as much as men.

    Among others, the Lawyers Secular Society and the National Secular Society had objected on the grounds that it encouraged discrimination and “legitimised sharia law” in Britain. They pointed out that this was religious, not legal, guidance, and therefore had no place in Law Society advice.

    In an open letter published in September, campaigners pointed out that the guidance encouraged legal and state welfare services to accommodate “highly gender discriminatory religions laws that are being increasingly defined by religious fundamentalists in our society”.

    The President of the Law Society has apologised for issuing the guidance.

    ---


    If you're going to align with Rafiq's position (that only a *communist* alternative is appropriate), then you're definitely *waffling* and *equivocating* by also invoking 'the left' as 'a viable and vital alternative'.
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    How *dare* you -- and *fuck you* while I'm at it -- to slur me with the 'racist' term.


    I have not done so, of course.

    Yes, you have. It's right here:



    Now, beyond spouting cryptoracist propaganda on forums [...]





    First, you need to deal with your entitlement issues. I don't owe you anything and did nothing to deserve your abuse:

    I'm not acting 'entitled', and my expression is not one of 'abuse' -- I'm saying that you should explain your facile and false characterization of my politics.



    Second, I would - if I had any interest in your histrionic rationalizations -

    *Another* blithe generalization -- I'm adding 'histrionic rationalizations' to your list, that you should *explain*, since that characterization is aimed at *me*, and I'm right here. (I dispute it.)



    ask you to explain your several and bizarre logical leaps

    #3 -- 'bizarre logical leaps'.



    that justify slandering a critique of spreading cryptoracist propaganda,

    There's no 'slandering' -- I'm *disputing* your name-calling, since there's no 'critique', only false name-calling.



    which, for example, people like Obama and Carson do every day, as "to slur me with the 'racist' term".

    I'm not Obama, and I'm not Carson. You still need to address *my* content.



    Not only was I describing a specific behavior, I specifically said "cryptoracist propaganda" as in the words and imagery of political tendencies who hide their racist nature, meaning it's clearly possible for a random person on the internet to do so without racist intent.

    Okay, again -- not me.



    I have no reason to believe you aren't racist, nor do I care about what you believe deep in your heart of hearts. We're discussing speech acts that actually occurred.

    Which 'speech acts', exactly -- ?

    You're still not *specifying* how I am what you claim that I am to be.
  10. #90
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    Sure. In my view another worldwide economic crash, say, ten times worse than the Great Depression could happen. (Another crisis is due in 1-3 yrs.) It's impossible to "bail out" the banks and no one is able to access cash at their ATMs, their debit and credit cards don't work. Unemployment goes to 50%. People begin to get hungry. The .01% are still doing fine on their private islands.
    These things don't happen overnight (in fact there are safe guards in law that prevent this, due to the Great Depression), look at how it happened in Greece and Argentina. Normally what happens is the financial system gives out warnings, the smart people transfer their money from one currency to another. The debt goes up to a point where their creditors won't give them any more money, the government reacts by closing the reserve bank, which limits what the other banks can dish out. The banks obviously have a cash reserve of their own (provided by interest on bank loans, and other products banks sell), so these banks then calculate how long the crisis will go for, and reduce daily withdrawals. People start to get worried and the government collapses due to dwindling support (MPs no longer have confidence in their leader to protect their constituents, its amazing how fast MPs move when there is a prospect of loosing voters). A new government is formed and the people realise that their welfare money isn't going to be there forever, and start getting their income from other sources (i.e getting a job, or talking to other family members).

    The other thing that goes on in all of this is if the country in question has its own currency, then the reserve bank prints money to devalue to the currency (basic supply and demand economics), this means exports are more competitive, imports less competitive. Thus more jobs for locals, thus saving the government money. And because the money is worth less, the cost of Labour is less as well, meaning even more jobs. Those smart people that transferred their cash to another currency before the crash happened, will transfer it back, thus exponentially increasing their money in numerical terms. They hire more people to work for them (because it costs less to hire people). More people working means more taxes. More taxes means the government can repay its creditors, and until it has no debt, and the cycle starts again.

    If you don't believe me, do some research into history and economics.

    People then start marching on their capitals and the military begins slaughtering them. Then a world wide revolution.
    Assuming communism is the only solution given at the time, and that people blame capitalism for the crash. People may blame socialism and government intervention for the crash, in which case communism is given a bad name as most people out there equate socialism/communism with government control and totalitarianism.

    But that's just one way it could happen, by violent revolution. It could also happen as the capitalist rate of profit continues to shrink to 1 or 2%, to the "zero lower bound" as the economists like to say. At that point capitalism could simply collapse. Without the possibility of making a profit a capitalist cannot exist. Traditionally, the capitalist class has overcome this problem by simply destroying billions, trillions of dollars of value in commodities and means of production. This usually happens in World Wars.
    This is again a basic supply and demand situation, and those same rules would apply. Also the free market would also come into effect here.

    If the capitalist class has any sense left it will give up peacefully, as Engels said somewhere.
    As I said I am not a capitalist, I just don't see how we are going to get to communism from the ways you point out.

    There are other ways which haven't been discussed here and I will discuss the ideas I have if I get unrestricted at some point.
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    F.y.i....


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    ISIS' worst nightmare




    ISIS attacks seek to spread hate and fear to divide the world's 1.5 billion Muslims from everyone else. Let's answer their hate with wisdom. By fiercely welcoming each other into our one human family like never before. Sign the global "Undivided" message now, add your own message and when 500,000 join we'll run ads in key newspapers:

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    Dear amazing Avaazers,

    History is made in moments, often of crisis and uncertainty, and the wisdom with which we meet them. This is one of those moments.

    ISIS's goal is to split the human family. To divide the world's 1.5 billion Muslims from everyone else. Those in our societies who sow fear, suspicion and hatred of Muslims - the Rupert Murdochs and Donald Trumps - are the best allies the extremists who attacked Paris and Beirut could ask for.

    Muslims are almost one quarter of humanity, and 99% are as horrified by the ISIS attacks as everyone else. They have been the greatest victims of ISIS, and have the greatest power to help defeat it. So let's answer hate with humanity, and seize this chance for transformative change. For all of us - Muslims and Non-Muslims everywhere - to fiercely welcome each other into our one human family like never before.

    Sign the global "Undivided" message, add your own, and share the page with everyone - If enough us join now, we can start a global wave of solidarity, and make the pain of these attacks the birth pangs of a more beautiful world. When we get to 500,000 signatures Avaaz will run ads in Muslim community papers and online, as well as key right wing papers that spread fear and division:

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    The real front line of this war is not just in the dusty towns of Syria and Iraq, but in the media and social media forums where the stories we tell ourselves compete. There is a fraternity of ignorance and hatred and it stretches across borders, in which extremists on all sides work together to drag the rest of us down into their backward world of spiralling brutality.

    Our governments will need to increase their vigilance in preventing attacks, and support military efforts to defeat ISIS. But our job as people, and our leaders' jobs as moral leaders, is to ensure that love, the transformational antidote to ISIS' hate, blooms between Muslims and everyone else everywhere. THAT would be ISIS' worst nightmare - it might even give some of the angry young men they recruit cause to hesitate - a chance to see an alternative as inspiring to them as the backward brand of faith that ISIS markets.

    At the darkest times, our light as humanity can shine brightest. Human rights were not recognized until after the second world war. The world got it wrong after 9/11, when leaders like George Bush played into Al Qaeda's hands by stoking Islamaphobia. This time, let's be wiser, come together as Muslims and non-Muslims more closely than ever before, and brightly shine the light of the world we're building:

    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/loving_t...&cl=8973097208

    From a place of love, we might begin to listen to our brothers and sisters among Muslims that have lent ISIS some support. First and foremost those Sunnis from Syria and Iraq, who have been treated unjustly by Iraq's government, and incredibly brutally oppressed by Syria's dictator Al Assad. We might begin to understand that when we failed to offer their families protection and relief from the horrors they faced, ISIS offered that protection, and some accepted it. We might focus on learning from this, and offering them a better deal.

    With that lesson, we might see the stories of the peoples around the world that ISIS fighters come from. From Chechnya, where generations of Muslim families were horrifically murdered by Russian military while the world looked away. Or from Egypt, or Algeria, or dozens of other countries, where sickeningly brutal state security police have tortured and murdered countless Muslims who dared to stand up to their venal corruption - something that is a religious responsibility for Muslims.

    And maybe then we will understand that while ISIS is a monster that we must defeat, the monster is more than just the group itself. It's the desperation of millions of people suffering under horrific conditions, and looking for a way out. And the rest of us in the human family, Muslims and non-Muslims, have either looked away, failed to effectively address, or often, backed and supported these horrors.

    So let's seize this moment with wisdom, to bring down the monster we face, the one we all have lines of responsibility for. Let's see the human family united like never before to defeat ISIS - not just on the battlefield, but in our own societies, in the media and social media, and most of all in the thousands of Muslim communities that live today around the world in fear. Let's encourage Muslim and Non-Muslim communities everywhere to embrace each other, welcome refugees with compassion, escalate our pressure on Egypt and other brutal governments to stop brutalizing opponents and creating the ISIS' of the future, redouble our efforts to achieve a peace deal in Syria, protect at-risk communities like the Rohingya, stop the US' constant terrifying drone attacks on communities, and ensure that the military actions we support are scrupulously careful to avoid traumatizing the civilians who are suffering enough already under ISIS' boot. If we do these things, we'll do far more than defeat ISIS, we'll defeat the misery that has given rise to them, and in a way that takes the human family one wiser step further on our journey together.

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  12. #92
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    ckaihatsu:

    I absolutely agree. But here is the biggest problem, how do you know who is apart of ISIS and believes in ISIS ideology and who doesn't? The issue is that ISIS fighters don't wear uniforms, they don't identify themselves and you can't ask them directly. So how do you know your not helping a member of ISIS when you "fiercely welcome each other into our one human family like never before". These people are living under the law of Allah, and not our secular laws.

    Quran:

    He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief-- on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.
    Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2), Islamic Law:

    "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...

    "One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie."
    I believe the solution is not to attack anyone who speaks out about ISIS. But to educate the entire public about what ISIS is doing, and the ideology they stand for. Through education, you can change the world and make a difference. It shouldn't be up to us to show support for their values and way of life, however everyone (Muslims and Non-Muslims) should show support for our way of life. Thus weeding out ISIS from the rest of the Muslims.

    ... religions will adapt to local customs as they always have, and no extra act of repression is needed to further limit traditional practices if the law of the land (however constituted) already requires equality and fairness and mandates provision of basic needs.

    those who take it to extremes and form hierarchical relationships can be denounced, perhaps sanctioned in some way, ultimately banned as individuals for those specific acts if needed; this is like exile, except generally you're not forced to go anywhere, you can be a hermit or live with the other dispossessed exploiters if you don't mind having no rights or capital. in societies with justice systems like this, typically the banned person responds by tearfully pleading for re-entry into society in exchange for starting to give mind to its customs and values, on pain of another ban. (Hopefully more firmly.)
    If we as a Leftist movement are to stamp out religion and start this revolution, we need to show them why we have a better way of life, and why religion (whether Christianity or Islam) has no place in society. That starts with education.
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    Now, beyond spouting cryptoracist propaganda on forums, where you call them by their preferred, aspirational name ISIS, what are you doing about Daesh?
    And the point of the women in the pictures?
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    ckaihatsu:

    I absolutely agree. But here is the biggest problem, how do you know who is apart of ISIS and believes in ISIS ideology and who doesn't? The issue is that ISIS fighters don't wear uniforms, they don't identify themselves and you can't ask them directly. So how do you know your not helping a member of ISIS when you "fiercely welcome each other into our one human family like never before". These people are living under the law of Allah, and not our secular laws.

    Quran:



    Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2), Islamic Law:



    I believe the solution is not to attack anyone who speaks out about ISIS. But to educate the entire public about what ISIS is doing, and the ideology they stand for. Through education, you can change the world and make a difference. It shouldn't be up to us to show support for their values and way of life, however everyone (Muslims and Non-Muslims) should show support for our way of life. Thus weeding out ISIS from the rest of the Muslims.

    I'm finding this entire line of yours to be too *granular*, and the *policy* implication of what you're saying is one of *anti-immigration*, which is inexcusable and unnecessary.

    Here's my position, from a week ago, at another thread:



    What some people are *still* missing is that this is all a *geopolitical* thing going on, the extension of the neoconservative 'shit list' (PNAC) -- as against Syria -- and the international schism that's created as long the U.S. and NATO consider it to be a legitimate agenda for foreign policy. (If Syria is demonized then that puts Iran and Russia on the 'other side' and invites GCC-backed fundamentalism and terrorism, as from ISIS / Saudi Arabia.)
    http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...0&postcount=56


    And a fuller, better analysis is at the same thread, at this post:


    Could there be a ceasefire and Western policy shift in Syria?

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...4&postcount=72
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    These things don't happen overnight... the smart people transfer their money...The banks obviously have a cash reserve of their own...these banks then calculate how long the crisis will go for, and reduce daily withdrawals... People start to get worried and the government collapses
    ... this means exports are more competitive, imports less competitive.
    Don't happen overnight? After Lehman Brothers went under the US economy was on the verge of collapsing overnight, at least according to the economic experts in charge at the time. Smart people? Obviously have a cash reserve? Reduce withdrawals = bank run. Government collapse? As in Russia 1917, Germany 1918, 1932, France 1789, Europe 1848, Paris 1871, etc?

    You apparently think that revolutions are no longer possible and that economic crashes have been permanently regulated and legislated away.

    Exports and imports don't mean anything in a world wide economic collapse.

    This is again a basic supply and demand situation, and those same rules would apply. Also the free market would also come into effect here.
    Supply and demand and the free market have long ceased to function in a monopoly dominated world economy.

    I just don't see how we are going to get to communism from the ways you point out.
    Well, since you don't believe a revolution or a world wide devastating economic collapse is possible, then I guess capitalism as operated by the smart people and the banks will go on forever. Personally I think Marx had it right when he said that crisis is a permanent feature of capitalism. Whether revolution will be permanent is still an unsettled question.
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    I'm finding this entire line of yours to be too *granular*, and the *policy* implication of what you're saying is one of *anti-immigration*, which is inexcusable and unnecessary.
    I am not anti-immigration, this is really about smart immigration (i.e excepting those who don't truly want to destroy us) and assimilating those who don't understand our way of life. And if I sound to granular, its because I am trying not to offend people who need not be offended. Moreover by targeting the ISIS group within the wider Muslim group, I hope to debunk the assertion that I am against all Muslims.

    Here's my position, from a week ago, at another thread:

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...0&postcount=56

    And a fuller, better analysis is at the same thread, at this post:

    Could there be a ceasefire and Western policy shift in Syria?

    http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...4&postcount=72
    I agree with your analysis.
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    ckaihatsu:

    I absolutely agree. But here is the biggest problem, how do you know who is apart of ISIS and believes in ISIS ideology and who doesn't?
    How do you know that the Mexican immigrants aren't murderers and rapists? How do you know the banker is not a Jew secretly working to use international finance to subvert the American Dream? How do you know that black over there is not getting ready to rob and kill you? How do you know that doctor is not secretly an abortionist? How do you know that right-wing Christian zealot is not a child molester?

    Are you by any chance a fan of Donald Trump?
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    Re: RM at post #95,



    2012–13 Cypriot financial crisis

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    (Redirected from 2012–2013 Cypriot financial crisis)

    The 2012–2013 Cypriot financial crisis is an economic crisis in the Republic of Cyprus that involves the exposure of Cypriot banks to overleveraged local property companies, the Greek government-debt crisis, the downgrading of the Cypriot government's bond credit rating to junk status by international credit rating agencies, the consequential inability to refund its state expenses from the international markets[1][2] and the reluctance of the government to restructure the troubled Cypriot financial sector.[3]

    On 25 March 2013, a €10 billion international bailout by the Eurogroup, European Commission (EC), European Central Bank (ECB) and International Monetary Fund (IMF) was announced, in return for Cyprus agreeing to close the country's second-largest bank, the Cyprus Popular Bank (also known as Laiki Bank), imposing a one-time bank deposit levy on all uninsured deposits there, and possibly around 48% of uninsured deposits in the Bank of Cyprus (the island's largest commercial bank), many held by wealthy citizens of other countries (many of them from Russia) who were using Cyprus as a tax haven.[4][5] No insured deposit of €100,000 or less would be affected.[6][7]

    Context[edit]

    Cypriot debt compared to Eurozone average


    Cyprus's debt-to-GDP percentage compared to Eurozone average since 1999

    The United States' subprime mortgage crisis in 2007–2008 led to a domino effect of negative consequences in the global economy including the European Union. The Cypriot economy went into recession in 2009, as the economy shrank by 1.67%,[8] with large falls specifically in the tourism and shipping sectors[9] which caused rising unemployment.[10] Economic growth between 2010 and 2012 was weak and failed to reach its pre-2009 levels.[8] Commercial property values declined by approximately 30%.[11] Non-performing loans rose to a reported 6.1% in 2011,[12] increasing pressure on the banking system. With a small population and modest economy, Cyprus had a large offshore banking industry. Compared to a nominal GDP of €19.5bn ($24bn)[13] the banks had amassed €22 billion of Greek private-sector debt with bank deposits $120bn, including $60bn from Russia business corporations.[14] Russian oligarch Dmitry Rybolovlev owned a 10% shareholding of Bank of Cyprus.[14][15][16]

    Cyprus banks first came under severe financial pressure as bad debt ratios rose. Former Laiki CEO Efthimios Bouloutas admitted that his bank was probably insolvent as early as 2008, even before Cyprus entered the Eurozone. The banks were then exposed to a haircut of upwards of 50% in 2011[17] during the Greek government-debt crisis,[18][19] leading to fears of a collapse of the Cypriot banks. The Cypriot state, unable to raise liquidity from the markets to support its financial sector, requested a bailout from the European Union.[9]
  21. #99
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    How do you know that the Mexican immigrants aren't murderers and rapists? How do you know the banker is not a Jew secretly working to use international finance to subvert the American Dream? How do you know that black over there is not getting ready to rob and kill you? How do you know that doctor is not secretly an abortionist? How do you know that right-wing Christian zealot is not a child molester?
    How many Mexican, Jews, doctors or Christian have tried to blow themselves up to strike terror?

    Are you by any chance a fan of Donald Trump?
    I think Donald Trump is the biggest idiot. Lets just say I'd rather live under ISIS rule then have have him be the president of the USA.

    The current presidential race is like picking between Adolf Hitler and Margaret Thatcher. The world is fucked is either party gets in.
  22. #100
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    Don't happen overnight? After Lehman Brothers went under the US economy was on the verge of collapsing overnight, at least according to the economic experts in charge at the time. Smart people? Obviously have a cash reserve? Reduce withdrawals = bank run. Government collapse? As in Russia 1917, Germany 1918, 1932, France 1789, Europe 1848, Paris 1871, etc?
    The smart economist already knew about the collapse in 2006. The sub-prime market was always going to crash sooner or later.

    You apparently think that revolutions are no longer possible and that economic crashes have been permanently regulated and legislated away.
    As I said, a revolution is possible, just not the way you describe.

    Exports and imports don't mean anything in a world wide economic collapse.
    They kind of actually do. Exports means goods (i.e like your computer chips) coming in, imports means goods going out. And these are essential for any country.

    Supply and demand and the free market have long ceased to function in a monopoly dominated world economy.
    Monopoly's wouldn't exist due to revenue loss, and no way of paying their employees.

    Well, since you don't believe a revolution or a world wide devastating economic collapse is possible, then I guess capitalism as operated by the smart people and the banks will go on forever. Personally I think Marx had it right when he said that crisis is a permanent feature of capitalism. Whether revolution will be permanent is still an unsettled question.
    He is right, in saying that crisis is a permanent feature in capitalism. The solution I have in mind will be a permanent revolution.

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