Basque activists block fash demo with chainsaws

[Comrade Marcel]

Nationalism is never the answer to opression.

There has never been any total answer to oppression if you want to get specific about it.

But to say nationalism hasn't been a force against oppression is to ignore history. Chinese nationalism defeated Japanese imperialism, etc. but you know how to read obviously.

black nationalism has always been a direct answer to white supremacy and only existed because of it. Even in their wildest dreams they weren't able to strip down remnants of white supremacy.

Well the very definition of a nation is itself is a European construct so it would be rather silly to say any nationalism at all exists outside of the actions of whites.

And lol at a moist calling someone an ultra-leftist
Everyone is an ultra-leftist from your viewpoint

Sure, that's fair.

On the other hand everyone, apparently, is a quasi fascist from theirs.

[John Nada]

Someone should make something like the picture in the Anti-Fascist group, only with a chainsaw.

[Cliff Paul]

oh but its cool for him to compare me to fuckin glenn beck? Sharing fascist premises makes you quasi fascist, and running around spreading nationalist shit and agitating for ethnic/national separatism fits the bill

Sigh. First off, analyzing fascism in abstract is a pointless endeavor. Fascism is a political movement that corresponds to a specific set of circumstances - the failure of the left, a distrust in the stability of bourgeois democracy, etc.

At the moment that the "normal" police and military resources of the bourgeois dictatorship, together with their parliamentary screens, no longer suffice to hold society in a state of equilibrium -- the turn of the fascist regime arrives. Through the fascist agency, capitalism sets in motion the masses of the crazed petty bourgeoisie and the bands of declassed and demoralized lumpenproletariat -- all the countless human beings whom finance capital itself has brought to desperation and frenzy.

The gigantic growth of National Socialism is an expression of two factors: a deep social crisis, throwing the petty bourgeois masses off balance, and the lack of a revolutionary party that would be regarded by the masses of the people as an acknowledged revolutionary leader. If the communist Party is the party of revolutionary hope, then fascism, as a mass movement, is the party of counter-revolutionary despair. When revolutionary hope embraces the whole proletarian mass, it inevitably pulls behind it on the road of revolution considerable and growing sections of the petty bourgeoisie. Precisely in this sphere the election revealed the opposite picture: counter-revolutionary despair embraced the petty bourgeois mass with such a force that it drew behind it many sections of the proletariat.....

Simply equating nationalism with fascism obfuscates the distinct characteristics of fascism and renders the term fascist meaningless, since virtually all political parties today identify with the modern day nation-state to some extent.

[PhoenixAsh]

The state of the revolutionary left and priorities:

Fascists are marching through the streets protected by cops.

Yes but that one person had a national flag so fuck the anti fascists....let's get them....clearly they are the issue

[QueerVanguard]

Simply equating nationalism with fascism obfuscates the distinct characteristics of fascism and renders the term fascist meaningless, since virtually all political parties today identify with the modern day nation-state to some extent.

yeah but not all political parties are agitating to separate from larger geographical units because "muh ethnic muh nation muh cultur" which is objectively reactionary

[RedWorker]

The state of the revolutionary left and priorities:

Fascists are marching through the streets protected by cops.

Yes but that one person had a national flag so fuck the anti fascists....let's get them....clearly they are the issue

If anything what is truly the problem with the "revolutionary left" is the degeneration of so many pseudo-left groups, of which the apologism of nationalism is a banner among other things. It has had very real effects.

The degree that some "leftist" groups have come in the apologism of nationalism both separatist, unionist and in general is debilitating and a symptom of root problems.

Having witnessed the Catalan experience personally myself, I know the damage both Catalan nationalism and Spanish nationalism, both of which have been explicitly promoted by the big capitalists and their political representatives (and they shamelessly admit this), has done to the working class, and the "leftist" apologists of this have had a key responsibility to share, caused further damage and divided the working class even further.

The nationalist illusion and clouding of politics has done damage by itself, and the division and damage inflicted to the working class movement among nationalist lines by pseudo-left groups has completed the outrageous assault on the proletariat.

The responsibility of the pseudo-left is an absolutely relevant element that cannot be denied.

[John Nada]

yeah but not all political parties are agitating to separate from larger geographical units because "muh ethnic muh nation muh cultur" which is objectively reactionary

The anti-colonial struggles which sought to separate from the "larger geographical units" like the British and French Empires were "objective reactionary"? I guess defending colonialism is revolutionary then.

Having witnessed the Catalan experience personally myself, I know the damage both Catalan nationalism and Spanish nationalism, both of which have been explicitly promoted by the big capitalists and their political representatives (and they shamelessly admit this), has done to the working class, and the "leftist" apologists of this have had a key responsibility to share, caused further damage and divided the working class even further.

The people in the op are Basque. Regardless of lumping together anyone perceived as daring to alter the sacred bourgeois borders of Spain, they're different nationalities. And anti-fascism is always good for the working class.

[Palmares]

... either for or against the reintroduction of the brown bear...

Does anyone have more specific information about the reason behind the demo?

Also, that chainsaw welding antifa image is fuckin' sick!

[OGG]

Regardless, the chainsaws are funny.

[PhoenixAsh]

If anything what is truly the problem with the "revolutionary left" is the degeneration of so many pseudo-left groups, of which the apologism of nationalism is a banner among other things. It has had very real effects.

The degree that some "leftist" groups have come in the apologism of nationalism both separatist, unionist and in general is debilitating and a symptom of root problems.

Having witnessed the Catalan experience personally myself, I know the damage both Catalan nationalism and Spanish nationalism, both of which have been explicitly promoted by the big capitalists and their political representatives (and they shamelessly admit this), has done to the working class, and the "leftist" apologists of this have had a key responsibility to share, caused further damage and divided the working class even further.

The nationalist illusion and clouding of politics has done damage by itself, and the division and damage inflicted to the working class movement among nationalist lines by pseudo-left groups has completed the outrageous assault on the proletariat.

The responsibility of the pseudo-left is an absolutely relevant element that cannot be denied.

I don't care. Plain and simple. I couldn't actually care less about what you surmise simply from a national flag being present at an anti-fascist demo to set you off on a tangent about basque nationalism.

If that is the thing you take away as important from this situation where fascists openly walk the streets protected by cops then you have serious priority problems.

[RedWorker]

I don't care. Plain and simple. I couldn't actually care less about what you surmise simply from a national flag being present at an anti-fascist demo to set you off on a tangent about basque nationalism.

The point is challenging the impunity with which such flags are displayed. Nationalism has become "accepted" by sectors of the "left", and this should be thoroughly challenged, instead of having people just stay quiet and even in tacit approval of what would otherwise be outrageous, which indicates a problem.

If that is the thing you take away as important from this situation where fascists openly walk the streets protected by cops then you have serious priority problems.

Why? I could be there fighting the fascists and later come to RevLeft and complain about this. What's your point?