Is the human brain "hard-wired" to believe in God?

[Red, Green, and Gold]

I know that this comes from an atheist website, but the articles on the site are from very good sources - newspapers and the like: http://www.atheistempire.com/reference/brain/main.html

What are your opinions on this...?

[redstar2000]

The discovery -- in sick people -- of a mal-functioning part of the brain that appears to be connected with feelings of "spirituality" is an interesting piece of scientific research.

To leap from their data to the conclusion that people in general are "hard-wired" to be "spiritual" is totally unjustified by their own evidence!

And to call it "the god module" is so brazenly an effort at self-promotion and fresh research grants that they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

There's been a theory floating around for a while that people who "start new religions" suffer from a mild form of epilepsy or schizophrenia...the kind where you "hear the voices" but you can "still function" in the real world.

That sounds like a pretty reasonable theory...though data is scarce.

Certainly more reasonable than a hypothesis that we are all "evolved" to be religious...based on a study of people with significant brain abnormalities.

Unfortunately, some scientists -- like some other people -- will say anything for money!



The Redstar2000 Papers
A site about communist ideas

[hazard]

redstar:

your claims all seem to revolve around the physical aspects of existence

outside of physical existence, then, according to you, there is nothing

this idea is sort of lame

first of all, only the MOMENT, the TRANISTIONAL INSTANT is physical

all prior to and beyond that, are, by definition spiritual

when I remember yesterday, I am not remembering any physical aspects, only my spiritual (aka mental) interpretations of them. the same can be said about the future. for instance, I forsee myself stepping outside in fifteen minutes. none of these are physical.

I spend only a frightening and strange moment in physical transit for every five minutes I spend preparing to put on my shoes or remembering a funny event from the day before

speaking of insanity, ever try remembering REMEMBERING something, while this itself takes place in the present as a moment in transit? thats sure to fuck with your concept that there is no non-physical, that is spiritual component to reality. as far as I can tell there really is ONLy a spiritual aspect to reality and the tiniest fraction of an instant that moves by so quickly I cannot even comprehend whether it existed at all.

[redstar2000]

first of all, only the MOMENT, the TRANSITIONAL INSTANT is physical

all prior to and beyond that, are, by definition spiritual

I never can tell when you are being serious and when you are just fooling around any more.

But on the chance that you're serious, the immediate moment is the only one that counts.

When you remember an event in the past or anticipate an event in the future, what is actually happening at this immediate moment is a series of electro-chemical (physical) events in your brain.

We are a long way from knowing the details of those processes, of course. But we know enough to dispense with any "spiritual" nonsense.

What those sick people are experiencing as "spirituality" is also a series of electro-chemical events...fucked-up ones.



The Redstar2000 Papers
A site about communist ideas

[squatter]

I think that people in general has a longing to know more. To get the answers to all the questions.

Why are we here?
What happens when we die?

I think that it is perhaps God's fright of us not believing in him that made him put this longing in us. That's the reason to every tribe religion and those modern ones like numerologi and such. Also science! Scientists are searching in a microscope or perhaps in a field with a shovel and a magnifying glass, while others look in a book or meditate... It's an instinct.

[hazard]

its not really a fair assessment to claim that the immediate moment is the only one that counts

for necessarilly there would not be an immediate moment if not for all subsequent ones

and similarly, what is the point of the immediate moment if not to transit into the next one?

spirtuality in this sense is far more worthy of holding value than the clearly more insane immediacy that itself is so intagible I myself often doubt whether or not it ever occured

[frizzbee]

The human need for religion is based on the dilema of beeing concious about the fact that every life has an end and the utmost motivation of all living tissue to survive at all means - doesn't it realy suck, that everything you love will end when your body quits functioning one day?
So, in every culture the human organism has ever formed, some clever people produced the idea, when you die only the material part of yourself will end but the essence of your person keeps on existing and goes to (fill in your favorite place).

As Marx said "Religion ist Opium für das Volk"!

[Don't Change Your Name]

Let's use some "common sense": if we are brainwashed as children to believe in God, if we see the world around us and can't seem to find an accurate way to explain "how" and "why", if we keep hearing about "miracles", if we can't understand what happens after dying, how can we explain that god doesn't exist? That's hard. However, as we can't feel God, we can't proove the opposite. As religious people are so stupid and keep saying "but I have faith that God exists", it's impossible to make people change their mind.

This is a very interesting thing, but do not forget that all the "God" thing existed for thousands of years, so we could have evolved according to it.

Anyway look at this:

A spokesman for Richard Harries, the Bishop of Oxford, said whether there is a "God module" is a question for scientists, not theologians. "It would not be surprising if God had created us with a physical facility for belief," he said.

I KNEW THEY WOULD TRY TO JUSTIFY IT!!!! Damn religious! I'm sure this will be used by those religious who believe that science proves that god exists.

But this is really an interesting thing, hoepfully they will keep researching this.

[cubist]

EL infilt(A)do,

one day science may proove gods existance, just like one day the may actually find the conclusive evidence to support the evolution of monkeys to humans. there is some scientific evidence which coincides with historical events in the bible. but thats plausable with the fact the both science and religion are written by humans who have thoughts and opinions.

to say we automatically believe in god is as stupid as claiming the turin shroud is what jesus was embalmed in

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by cephas@Feb 23 2004, 02:40 PM
EL infilt(A)do,

one day science may proove gods existance, just like one day the may actually find the conclusive evidence to support the evolution of monkeys to humans. there is some scientific evidence which coincides with historical events in the bible. but thats plausable with the fact the both science and religion are written by humans who have thoughts and opinions.

to say we automatically believe in god is as stupid as claiming the turin shroud is what jesus was embalmed in

I don't get your point

[cubist]

to say we awken as babies and believe in god, is a silly as saying the turin shroud (a straight piece of cloth wit th emarkings of christ on them) (which is not how they would wrap a body, nor is it real as the carbon date was some 400 years after jesus's death) was real

[SittingBull47]

This makes me think of this: If there were an asteroid or something that hit the earth right now and the entire population was wiped out with the exception a few newborns/babies (and assuming they can survive where they're at) would they (in years to come) build a church or think of their existence?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by SittingBull47@Mar 4 2004, 10:47 AM
This makes me think of this: If there were an asteroid or something that hit the earth right now and the entire population was wiped out with the exception a few newborns/babies (and assuming they can survive where they're at) would they (in years to come) build a church or think of their existence?

Even if they were able to survive in the wild, they would probably not be humans -- no language, no coherent thought beyond the next meal or having sex, etc.

But I think what you're really asking is that would someone who knew nothing of religion (for or against) naturally "invent" religion?

The answer is yes, of course...we know that because that's what happened.

What we really are "hard-wired" to do is seek explanations for what we observe (animals don't seem to be able to do this).

The "chief gods" seem to all start out as "storm gods" -- including "our own" Yahweh, of course. Primitive humans seem to have the idea of a big thunderstorm as a human fit of anger on a "god-like" scale.

That's an "explanation" that seems to "make sense" to an ignorant mind.

In communist societies, kids will be taught that real explanations exist or are possible to find for everything. Thus, there will be no reason to re-invent religion.



The Redstar2000 Papers
A site about communist ideas

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by SittingBull47@Mar 4 2004, 03:47 PM
This makes me think of this: If there were an asteroid or something that hit the earth right now and the entire population was wiped out with the exception a few newborns/babies (and assuming they can survive where they're at) would they (in years to come) build a church or think of their existence?

Yes, they will start thinking about how the hell they got to live and how everything was created. But I'm not sure if they will have a simmilar "theory" than the modern religion's one.


cephas:

to say we awken as babies and believe in god, is a silly as saying the turin shroud (a straight piece of cloth wit th emarkings of christ on them) (which is not how they would wrap a body, nor is it real as the carbon date was some 400 years after jesus's death) was real

I meant to say that in the modern society, we are so used to all this faith that they impose on us and all the stories of "miracles" that we initially end up thinking that it might exist to explain such things. I think you are right in that you aren't born as a believer but I suppose one accepts what's thaught when one is a kid. You probably referred to the "This is a very interesting thing, but do not forget that all the 'God' thing existed for thousands of years, so we could have evolved according to it" bit. If that's the case this means that my theory could be that all this search for spirituality developed the brain, but probabilities are not very big.

[Pepo]

Could anyone explain what is this subject doing here?

Anyway you all can try to explain in some racional way the existence of God or not.
I certainly have my opinion but I don't feel any need to base it on theory. God exists to those that believe and doesn't exist to those that don't what to believe.

Personally I believe I believe that God it's only a work to define something that will never be defined.
On first place I realise that people talk about God has it would be something above all of us, I think that's wrong.
It has been said in most religions that God is all over, in each of us. Well, it's seems to me quite clear that God are all of us and that we create our freedom to chose between good and bad.
I can pray to heaven and say...

"Oh God! Please help me to find a job and be more successfully, so that I can give my family a better life." H

Honestly that will not help much, instead I can pray to myself, meditate and look for energy, motivation and ask to myself to go out fight for a job, to be a good worker and get all that I want.
That might work faster.

Yes indeed I believe in God, I believe that he's inside me, so I need to talk with him, ask him why is he sad, or happy, try to find motivation, etc...

Let me put this in a political context:
Great Blind American People, always say, let God bless America, and they wait and wait...what kind of bless is that of having two Airplanes blowing over New York.

American people should better look inside America and ask politicians to Stop being an Army Nation. Most of the money is going to the Army and not to the people.

The same with Fundamentalists, always looking to Allah but never doing something to really change their own reality.

Look inside people and not outside.

[Take the Power back]

I tend to believe that someone's belief in god is based on upbringing, and how much religious propoganda is placed on them as a child. I was raised to believeany way I chose, and I chose not to. In America, a still very religious country, more people are religious because their parents are, and society says it's ok to have a strong belief in god, whether that belief is healthy or otherwise.

[insurgency03]

I think its more of a desire than an instinct. It makes people who r unsure feel better about there lives, because they know theres something better for them. Great concept though

[shyguywannadie]

I do NOT believe in god, therefore the brain can NOT be hard-wired to believe in god's existance.

[che's long lost daughter]

Quote: There's been a theory floating around for a while that people who "start new religions" suffer from a mild form of epilepsy or schizophrenia...the kind where you "hear the voices" but you can "still function" in the real world.


People who just start religions out of nowhere because the "voice" of god told them to do so are suffering from delusion of grandeur and delusions are one of the symptoms of schizophrenia.

[pandora]

I think we're all just afraid to die, I see death a lot and you wonder where people go, reincarnation makes sense because as Einstein says energy never ceases.
This is important to me as a socialist, because if you figure you die and that's it, or you go to heaven or hell this fuck this world it's just Grand Central
But if you think you might end up back here then it gives you more reason to care, and think of others
Perhaps if rich people believed in reincarnation they'd be nicer to poor people, because that's where they're headed if they are miserly. But most people don't believe what goes around comes around if they did you wouldn't have to teach ethics