i think you are giving the KKE way to much credit here...
Results 41 to 60 of 231
Yes. Because you know that that is not going to happen and isn't realistic. So....they must have another plan.
i think you are giving the KKE way to much credit here...
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater?
Here at least We shall be free
Either you're both in the wrong forum or this forum has the wrong name.
Maybe the second option is closer to the truth nowadays.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
Again, these polls have been conducted before the negotiations stalled.
Up to then, the Greek government was negotiating with the creditors. And it had the support of most of the electorate, as can be seen in a poll by Public Issue, link here: 41% of "definitely approve", 16% of "rather approve".
And so, up to then, "supporting the negotiations" and "supporting the government" meant the same thing.
Now, however, the government has left the table, and is calling for a "no" vote against the creditors proposals/impositions. So, now, "supporting negotiations" and "supporting the government" no longer mean the same thing; rather, they mean the opposite of each other. Consequently, the Greeks who until last weak supported both will have to chose; either they vote "yes" Sunday, and support the negotiations against their government, or they vote "no", and support their government decision to break with the negotiations.
Now, it may well be that they do the former, and bring down their government by voting "yay", but we can't bet on that on surveys conducted before the new situation was created.
Further, a "yay" vote on Sunday means the resignation of the cabinet, and new elections. If the Greek voters are coherent, they will then vote ND back into government, and capitulation will ensue*. If they vote for SYRIZA again, they will be incoherent, and demanding that a given political team does the opposite of what such political team seems willing to do.
Luís Henrique
* Or perhaps they will find some way to make sence of KKE's zigzags, and vote for a party that seems to be doing its best to get as least votes as possibles, and "revolution" will ensue. Which will be a big problem for the KKE, of course, as it has absolutely no intention or plans for a revolution, and will not know what to do if entrusted with the vote of the majority of Greeks.
Of course they have. They plan to have as few votes as they can manage to without losing representation in the Parliament, so that they can keep the tribune without having to take any responsibility for what is coming in.
Oh, you meant a plan for Greece, or for Europe, or for the working class. No, sorry. The haven't any for these.
Luís Henrique
What planet have I landed on
Man is but a goat in the hands of butchers
I am just wondering where the KKE is seeing the revolutionary potential in between now and the inevitable time of default resulting from a Greek refusal to negotiate or strike a bargain. Because they are taking some pretty damned awesome shooms and I definitely need to get me some as well.
The call for revolution is a platitude. Nobody will disagree that that is a solution but it isn't a realistic expectation on any short term.
Nor has there been any constructive work in the last fee years but rather every attempt to stop escalation of the struggle.
And even in the extreme unlikely situation that we just assume reality doesn't actually count and a revolution would take place...socialism in one country, especially one so tiny and isolated as Greece, is not only doomed to fail but Greece would be immediately plunged in isolation, thrown from the EU, and probably immediately invaded. It would still need to to ally rely on capitalist structures even if these events would not all occur.
Does that mean we should oppose a revolution...of course not. But perhaps you should start working towards it.
Stock markets going down globally.
Tomorrow to Wednesday, the inevitable default (unless the Greek government has 2 billion dollars stacked under its mattress, perhaps). So the stock markets are probably going even crazier.
Luís Henrique
Also to notice on that survey, 50% of the people think the government should "definitely not retreat" and 12% that it should "rather not retreat".
Luís Henrique
There is one great reason to vote no. To not allow Tsipras to escape, have him try to find a common ground between his inhumane proposals and the lender's inhumane proposals and have people like you shut up for good. Or at the very least think twice before you start with your nonsense.
But it's a good thing I'm not being vengeful and will instead do what I think is best for my -and my class' -material interests.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
By working towards it ofcourse you mean:
1) Saying it's impossible
2) Saying that even if it were possible, it would result in everyone dying horrible horrible deaths.
A default seems to be a situation when those on top can't govern like they used to and those at the bottom won't be governed like they used to accept.
Anyway though, I'm wondering why not one of you came to comment on this thread: http://www.revleft.com/vb/syrizas-co...433/index.html
You do seem to be interested. Maybe it is that you're having some trouble defending your sweetheart's decision to increase the sales tax on foodstuff and bus tickets by 10%? Maybe it's hard for you to explain exactly how this improves lives and exactly why I or anyone else should be supporting it?
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
Well that is nice but you have repeatedly failed to actually address and describe what is that class interest in between now, the pending default and before revolution is actually going to happen. Not to mention how you see the logical outcome of a no vote and what this means for the working class in the reality of the situation...and how these consequences are in the class interests.
So it is empty
There is no class interest, just endless rape. I guess you're fine with that but I'm not.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
I object to that wording.
But this again ignores the pretty obvious question how you see that the KKE intent with the vote is going to contribute to the class interests.
Because there is one reality: there won't be a revolution anytime soon. This leaves the dichotomy between a deal and a default and exit. The KKE position will invariably result in a default and exit. How does this benefit your class?
Because you have repeatedly argued against an exit because of the consequences for that very same class.
Then how is what the KKE is doing anything but symbolic posturing again finding itself along the right/conservative side of the political spectrum as it seems to regularly do on important issues.
When society is structured like a pyramid, it isn't just a good way for a small ruling class to rule millions of people at the bottom. Even if a few upstarts from the bottom manage to take the top of the pyramid, it isn't going to help as long as the structure of the pyramid is intact.
So how does the ruling class maintain control of a pyramid in which others have taken the top? By capitalizing on the single-point of failure at the top of the pyramid. As long as people still obey those at the top of the pyramid, then all that needs to be done is to bribe, blackmail, or intimidate those at the top, then the rest of society follows.
If there is no structural change, there is no societal change.
See also: http://reddit.com/r/socialism http://www.reddit.com/r/anarchistnews http://reddit.com/r/anarchism
The only slaves who are happy, are the crazy ones.
Fine, I'll leave you and and your kind here to talk about the impossibility of a revolution. There are more fun ways to waste one's time.
...We shall never recognise equality with the peasant profiteer, just as we do not recognise “equality” between the exploiter and the exploited, between the sated and the hungry, nor the “freedom” for the former to rob the latter. And those educated people who refuse to recognise this difference we shall treat as whiteguards, even though they may call themselves democrats, socialists, internationalists, Kautskys, Chernovs, or Martovs.
V.I. Lenin
Aha. So you actually think a revolution will happen in the next week? How does the KKE position on the referendum bring the revolution closer?
You CONSISTENTLY fail and downright refuse to address this.
The pyramid organizational structure is not designed for freedom of thought. Regardless of whether the media is controlled by supposed communists or capitalists, if it is structured like a pyramid, it designed for the authoritarian dissemination of indoctrination.
See also: http://reddit.com/r/socialism http://www.reddit.com/r/anarchistnews http://reddit.com/r/anarchism
The only slaves who are happy, are the crazy ones.
We talk about the political situation all the fucking time, with missleading information about everything and everyone, we have no idea of what is going to happen because we don't listen to what people say, but what we want to listen and so many other stuff.
People are lining to get their money, they can now withdraw 60 euros per day and I heard about making it 20 euros per day cause lots and lots of people are massively withdrawing their money.
I need to start boxing or shooting or another violent hobby, because my temper is getting out of control
The KKE needs to hurry up with their revolution because the deadline for default is in 15 minutes...
