Thread: Greek euro exit

Results 21 to 40 of 56

  1. #21
    Join Date Oct 2014
    Posts 95
    Rep Power 5

    Default

    Final results at the 100% of the country

    SYRIZA 36,34% 149 seats
    New Democracy 27,81% 76 seats
    Golden Dawn 6,28% 17 seats
    Potami 6,05% 17 seats
    Greek Communist Party (GCP) 5,47% 15 seats
    Independent Greeks 4,75% 13 seats
    PASOK 4,68% 13 seats
  2. #22
    Join Date Jan 2015
    Location Madrid
    Posts 13
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    Unless the Greeks themselves actively push for a way out of the EU there is no way it will happen. The Troika and other Greek creditors have already tacitly admitted that they don't expect to get the full value of the debt back and pushing Greece out of the Eurozone and back into a Drachma that would float on the markets would massively inflate the value of the debt from a Greek perspective. The chances of any serious amount of debt repayment would then disappear. All the talk of the ECB refusing to lend to the Greek banks or Greece being shut out of the capital markets is just neoliberal rhetoric and bullshit. If any of those things actually happened, the country could fairly quickly descend into anarchy and destabilise the entire region. History suggest that this type of disruption near the Balkans is unlikely to be sanctioned.

    The upshot is that Syriza probably has more power and leeway here than the popular press would like to admit. It all hinges though on whether Syria can stay in power long enough to start acting on its manifesto or whether spin from the Troika/press/markets etc will destabilise its government and replace it with a party more likely to play the austerity game. You can be sure that the major capitalist players all over the world are working round the clock to make this happen. But in the meantime Greece aren't likely to be kicked out of the single currency.
    The Search for Socialism http://thesearchforsocialism.com/
  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Samurai Socialist For This Useful Post:


  4. #23
    Join Date Jan 2015
    Location Madrid
    Posts 13
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    We are already getting an idea of how the right-wing media will aggressively try to undermine Syriza's ability to carry out its electoral mandate. In completely ignoring the rights of the Greek people to try to determine their own future, today's Economist had this pearl of wisdom / utter bullshit to offer:

    "This newspaper's solution: get Mr Tsipras to junk his crazy socialism and to stick to structural reforms in exchange for debt forgiveness....A very logical dream until you wake up and remember that Mr Tsipras is a crazy leftwinger."

    It is as depressing as it is predictable and we can only hope that the left can also step it up in the war of words and ideologies.
    The Search for Socialism http://thesearchforsocialism.com/
  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Samurai Socialist For This Useful Post:


  6. #24
    Join Date Aug 2013
    Location $witzerland
    Posts 568
    Rep Power 16

    Default

    German and swiss news report that Schauble proposed that Greece should exit the euro zone for at least five years in order to restructure their debts.

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...ue#pageIndex_2

    I'll see if I can find an english source.

    EDIT

    Wolfgang Schaeuble, finance minister of its biggest creditor Germany and a stickler for the EU's fiscal rules, said negotiations would be "exceptionally difficult".

    Emerging optimism about Greece had been "destroyed in an incredible way in the last few months" since Tsipras won power, Schaeuble said.

    A German newspaper reported that his ministry was suggesting that Greece either improve its proposals quickly and transfer state assets worth 50 billion euros into a fund to pay down debt, or take a five-year "time-out" from the euro zone.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0P40EO20150711

    Could you give us some sources to back up that information though, otherwise it will just seem that you are talking out off your ass somehow.
    I guess it doesn't seem like I'm talking out off my ass somehow anymore, huh.
    La dialectique, peut-elle casser des briques?
  7. The Following User Says Thank You to DOOM For This Useful Post:


  8. #25
    Join Date Feb 2012
    Posts 400
    Rep Power 13

    Default

    German and swiss news report that Schauble proposed that Greece should exit the euro zone for at least five years in order to restructure their debts.

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...ue#pageIndex_2

    I'll see if I can find an english source.

    EDIT



    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0P40EO20150711
    It does seem to be in question, a little after that section it also states that several ministers denied the topic being brought up.

    Of course, that doesn't really mean much, but.
  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hermes For This Useful Post:


  10. #26
    Join Date Mar 2006
    Location Seattle
    Posts 6,164
    Rep Power 69

    Default

    Doesn't really matter if it's the IMF or ECB, when they're done with you, you end up being a Third World debt colony. If you don't agree to their terms, they use extra-judicial means to force your "leaders" to agree.
  11. The Following User Says Thank You to cyu For This Useful Post:


  12. #27
    Join Date Mar 2006
    Location Seattle
    Posts 6,164
    Rep Power 69

    Default

    The political and societal structures that allowed the rise of fascism in Germany are still there. Just because your body was cured of the last disease, the structures that allowed the disease to flourish the last time are still there.
  13. #28
    Join Date Mar 2008
    Location traveling (U.S.)
    Posts 15,319
    Rep Power 65

    Default


    Doesn't really matter if it's the IMF or ECB, when they're done with you, you end up being a Third World debt colony. If you don't agree to their terms, they use extra-judicial means to force your "leaders" to agree.

    'Playground politics'.
  14. #29
    Join Date Mar 2006
    Location Seattle
    Posts 6,164
    Rep Power 69

    Default

    Adolf builts a bonfire, Enrico plays with it
    Whistling tunes we hid in the dunes by the seaside
  15. #30
    Join Date Mar 2014
    Location Brutish Columbia, Canada
    Posts 99
    Rep Power 7

    Default

    Yeah, not happening. Looks like it's going to be bailout #3 for Greece.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33503955
    "If you're feeling low, stuck in some bardo
    I, even I know the solution
    Love, music, wine and revolution."

    -The Magnetic Fields

    “The most violent element in society is ignorance. ”

    ― Emma Goldman
  16. #31
    Join Date Jan 2013
    Location Los Angeles
    Posts 334
    Organisation
    The Japjew Conspiracy
    Rep Power 15

    Default

    I knew Syriza was going to disappoint but I did not expect them to be this boring and uninspiring.
    Fiat justitia ruat caelum!
    Let justice be done though the Heavens fall!
  17. #32
    Join Date Jan 2011
    Location The Netherlands
    Posts 8,033
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    This is what happened:

    Greece got 32 billion more loans (and to put that in perspective...that is about 160% of what was previously on the table), a debt restructuring and loan extension. They also got a slightly watered down austerity deal with nominative extra measures which don't amount to much except guarantee extra effort by the administrative branch.

    From a bourgeois perspective this is a reasonable victory for Greece.

    Considering that there was always going to be a deal which would keep Greece in the Euro with a slight possibility that the resulting power struggle in the EU camp would result in German victory and therefore a forced Greek exit for at least some period of time...there would never have been a favorable deal for the Greek working class.

    Sure...there was a sliver of hope that the left wing of SYRIZA would gain influence and that the negotiations would have resulted in a serious debt reduction (and I hoped this deep down too) or, which was more likely but still a minor chance, a forced Grexit (which I find endlessly preferable)....

    But the deal was always the situation. Neither Greece's bourgeoisie nor the EU can afford a Greek exit from the EU and EURO for economic and political reasons.

    The working class is not a player attm.

    Both the EP as well as the different National Parliaments need to confirm the deal. But I hardly think it is likely that a deal won't happen.
  18. The Following User Says Thank You to PhoenixAsh For This Useful Post:


  19. #33
    Join Date Jan 2011
    Location The Netherlands
    Posts 8,033
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    What happens now in Greece is of vital importance.

    Before Wednesday a lot of new legislation needs to be passed. And while the opposition is in full support Syriza faces an internal conflict with the Left Wing. Several MP's will refuse to cooperate and SYRIZA leadership will need to replace MP's and faces three ministers in the cabinet who oppose the deal openly.

    To remove these there needs to be a 151 vote of no confidence which would make SYRIZA vulnerable because to reach these numbers they will need opposition support and that support won't come cheap, politically speaking.

    (!! following based on hear say)

    From what I heard through contacts in Greece the Left Wing of SYRIZA is gaining popular support. And SYRIZA as a whole is currently suffering in the opinion polls. In favor of both ND, GD and KKE. I also heard that there are plans for massive protests...but I haven't seen any calls...and usually I get them.

    (I NEED TO STRESS HERE AGAIN THAT THE ABOVE ARE RUMORS I CAN'T SUBSTANTIATE OR FACT CHECK. I HAVE NOT SEEN POLLS!)
  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PhoenixAsh For This Useful Post:


  21. #34
    Join Date Mar 2008
    Location traveling (U.S.)
    Posts 15,319
    Rep Power 65

    Default

    ---



    Doesn't really matter if it's the IMF or ECB, when they're done with you, you end up being a Third World debt colony. If you don't agree to their terms, they use extra-judicial means to force your "leaders" to agree.


    [M]any Greeks and others who thought that unduly harsh terms were being imposed on Greece have expressed their widespread anger online using the hashtag #ThisIsACoup.
  22. #35
    Join Date Jun 2015
    Posts 230
    Rep Power 0

    Default

    The new bailout agreed to by Syriza includes "measures to streamline pensions, raise tax revenue and liberalise the labour market."

    Now there's something a revolutionary leftist can get behind.
  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Spectre of Spartacism For This Useful Post:


  24. #36
    Join Date Mar 2006
    Location Seattle
    Posts 6,164
    Rep Power 69

    Default

    Meanwhile, the leader of the slave rebellion went to negotiate with the slave owners. He came back with a great deal. Instead of selling children to different families, the owners promised to sell families as a single unit instead. The slaves celebrated.

    You really can't expect any humanity when dealing with slave owners. They can only maintain their position by having intentionally suppressed any empathy with slaves.
  25. #37
    Join Date Jul 2010
    Location Up yours nosey parker
    Posts 390
    Rep Power 20

    Default

    You've been extremely abstract recently, cyu.
    "He rather hated the ruling few than loved the suffering many."

    Formerly known as Pragmatic-Punk / Right Hand Of Jah / Heinous Bifter
  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Futility Personified For This Useful Post:


  27. #38
    Join Date Mar 2006
    Location Seattle
    Posts 6,164
    Rep Power 69

    Default

    Well, I could just say the people who impose austerity are sociopaths. But that sounds a bit trite and boring

    Not that it's really anything new with the Greek situation. Rich people throughout history have told poor people that poor people need to suffer more.
  28. #39
    Join Date Mar 2006
    Location Seattle
    Posts 6,164
    Rep Power 69

    Default

    We should totally get together for a pot session and bring the post quality of this site up to the next level

    [EDIT: seems the post this part was responding to was deleted, so it will make even less sense that the normal pot-induced posts ]

    Obligatory topic...



    We’re seeing a small pin pricking a very large balloon... Greek debt is tied to EU debt. EU debt is tied to world debt.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...-so-goes-world

    When we're talking about the welfare of the entire capitalist system itself, what is a few murders to keep it going, so say officials at the IMF.

    http://opiniojuris.org/2011/05/15/wh...director-have/

    IMF Articles of Agreement Section IX(8) provides that officers of the IMF and employees of the Fund “(i) shall be immune from legal process with respect to acts performed by them in their official capacity except when the Fund waives this immunity.”
  29. The Following User Says Thank You to cyu For This Useful Post:


  30. #40
    Join Date Mar 2014
    Location Brutish Columbia, Canada
    Posts 99
    Rep Power 7

    Default

    The Jacobin definitely reversed the hope they had that Syriza would actually do anything of any substance for the working class: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/t...-deal-germany/

    Austerity is dead, long live austerity.
    "If you're feeling low, stuck in some bardo
    I, even I know the solution
    Love, music, wine and revolution."

    -The Magnetic Fields

    “The most violent element in society is ignorance. ”

    ― Emma Goldman
  31. The Following User Says Thank You to ChangeAndChance For This Useful Post:


Similar Threads

  1. Ex-SYRIZA leader Alavanos launches party advocating Greek euro exit
    By Die Neue Zeit in forum News & Ongoing Struggles
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 24th February 2015, 15:05
  2. The Euro - exit stage Left?
    By Tower of Bebel in forum News & Ongoing Struggles
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 4th November 2013, 13:34
  3. Fitch Analyses Greece’s Euro Exit
    By Delenda Carthago in forum News & Ongoing Struggles
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 26th May 2012, 19:31
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19th February 2010, 15:20
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19th February 2010, 15:20

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Tags for this Thread