Views on prostitution

[DAN E BOY]

Not sure if this is in the right place, hope it is.

Basically, I don't have any dealings with this side of society but I know it can affect us all in one way or another.

So that is my question: is it acceptable for people to prostitute themselves?

I can see both sides of the coin. On one side people should be free to do what they want with there own body, so it's not the states duty to ban this practice.

But on the other, legitimising prostitution will only compound the idea of women are sex objects. And it is primarily a ''problem'' for women.

What are your thoughts on this. Thanks in advance.

[RedWorker]

Banning them from prostituting themselves is a bourgeois solution which actually increases sexual oppression. But establishing a false dichotomy can cloud this fact. To understand this, notice that censorship of pornography, for instance, is linked with sexually repressive regimes, while pornography also can promote sexist elements. The solution is not banning or censoring it... and not everything is fixed by just allowing it.

Women who prostitute themselves do so based on economic conditions. They will keep doing it if illegalized, but in even shittier conditions. The solution is to ensure all individuals have their needs covered in general, and, in regard to prostitution specifically, its legalization and regularization in order to address the needs and stop the abuse of sex workers.

"And here is the answer to the outcry of the highly moral philistines against the 'community of women'. Community of women is a condition which belongs entirely to bourgeois society and which today finds its complete expression in prostitution. But prostitution is based on private property and falls with it. Thus, communist society, instead of introducing community of women, in fact abolishes it." - F. Engels

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

We've had threads similar to this countless times, so I'll put my generic answer:

Prostitution, like all work, is exploitative. It is neither better nor worse then any other form of work, all are equal in their exploitation. Prostitution does have its share of problems that are unique to it, however, which makes the situation a tad bit more complicated.

Banning and criminalizing prostitution is a bourgeois moralist and paternalistic solution that often hurts the prostitutes the worse. Prostitution as a practice should be legalized, and the prostitutes themselves should be able to organize and negotiate for better working conditions and pay. This should also be combined with a concerted effort to route out and destroy sex slavery and human trafficking rings that thrive off of both exploitation of innocents and the blanket illegality of prostitution in total, instead of just sex slavery of human trafficking.

[Lily Briscoe]

There's a thread on this subject like every other week. If you try the search function, it will probably turn up dozens of relatively recent ones.

[Loony Le Fist]

Prostitution, like all work, is exploitative. It is neither better nor worse then any other form of work, all are equal in their exploitation. Prostitution does have its share of problems that are unique to it, however, which makes the situation a tad bit more complicated.

Banning and criminalizing prostitution is a bourgeois moralist and paternalistic solution that often hurts the prostitutes the worse. Prostitution as a practice should be legalized, and the prostitutes themselves should be able to organize and negotiate for better working conditions and pay. This should also be combined with a concerted effort to route out and destroy sex slavery and human trafficking rings that thrive off of both exploitation of innocents and the blanket illegality of prostitution in total, instead of just sex slavery of human trafficking.

Absolutely. Prostitution shouldn't even really be a thing. It only exists thanks to capitalism, IMO. But if it's going to be, let's make it as less exploitative as possible.

[DAN E BOY]

There's a thread on this subject like every other week. If you try the search function, it will probably turn up dozens of relatively recent ones.

Sorry I didn't know that, still new to the site.

[Palmares]

Absolutely. Prostitution shouldn't even really be a thing. It only exists thanks to capitalism, IMO. But if it's going to be, let's make it as less exploitative as possible.

Interestingly enough, some sex workers I know believe that, in their ideal post-capitalist society, sex work would still exist. From what I can gather, they see sex work as a service that, in a different context, would not necessarily be exploitative.

[The Feral Underclass]

is it acceptable for people to prostitute themselves?

Is it acceptable to be a baker or a checkout clerk? Genuine questions.

[RedWorker]

Interestingly enough, some sex workers I know believe that, in their ideal post-capitalist society, sex work would still exist. From what I can gather, they see sex work as a service that, in a different context, would not necessarily be exploitative.

What is sex? People do it to please each other, it's fully natural. But making it a service means to do it to everyone, as if it was labor, without any conditions, as long as the economic exchange takes place successfully. This can only take place within capitalism. The notion that any such service would exist as a general condition in a communist society as prostitution does now is ridiculous.

[The Feral Underclass]

What is sex? People do it to please each other, it's fully natural. But making it a service means to do it to everyone, as if it was labor, without any conditions, as long as the economic exchange takes place successfully. This can only take place within capitalism. The notion that any such service would exist in a communist society as prostitution does now is ridiculous.

Do you think communist society is going to make everyone desirable? What if someone is in a relationship(s) in which their sexual fetish goes unfulfilled because those the person is committed to don't find it arousing? What if someone just wants to have sex with a stranger without the need to fulfil social obligations, or can't otherwise get sex conventionally?

There are many different reasons why a sex service might be useful and if there are people who are willing to provide that service then how is that ridiculous?

[Sasha]

What is sex? People do it to please each other, it's fully natural. But making it a service means to do it to everyone, as if it was labor, without any conditions, as long as the economic exchange takes place successfully. This can only take place within capitalism. The notion that any such service would exist as a general condition in a communist society as prostitution does now is ridiculous.

i know several sex workers that offer their sex services to (depending on the service and the sex worker) physical, mentally or socially handicapped people, people with certain fetishes that they cant get met in their relationships etc etc.
while the sex workers in question certainly enjoy this work it is work and they might perform the same kind of sexual activities in their personal relationships yet the distinction between their work and their personal relationships is important to them.
this is no different than me as a carpenter making a difference between building furniture for myself, a friend, a collective i volunteer for or a commercial client. like me and my carpentry in a post capitalist society these sex workers probably would still like to provide society with these services but still would make, like me, a distinction between their "work" (then on a voluntary basis in service of the community) and their personal free time.

[PhoenixAsh]

Sexual petit-bourgeois morality says that sex needs to be something "special" and purely enjoyed on the basis of emotional intimacy...preferably heterosexual.

With the added bonus where virginity, chastity, purity are regarded as a virtuous in women otherwise they are just sluts you can use...

So the first part is especially true when it comes to women....and it is one of the most fundamental aspects that drives the "OMG PROSTITUTION" debate.

[jullia]

Let's be honest in the huge majority of the case, prostitution is exploit by mafia who terrorise and put in slavery innocent and desesperate women. An honest socialist can't use prostitute.

[cyu]

There is unspoken support among some of the wealthy for keeping capitalism in place, if only because prostitution is the only way they can get sex. Without forcing attractive women into poverty and desperate for money, they believe there is no other way for them to have sex with attractive women. This kind of support for capitalism is unspoken because they don't want to admit they are social losers.

One of the failures of modern education is that they allocate almost all their resources to teaching facts that have little to do with social interaction. Thus you can graduate knowing almost everything you need to know about science, math, history, and literature, but still know next to nothing about how to get a date or make friends.

So you get a lot of stock brokers who may be geniuses at math or computers, but have to rely on prostitutes for sex. You get a society that may be geniuses at making powerful weapons, but has no clue about how to get along with their neighbors. You get soldiers who know a hundred different ways to kill someone, but can only get sex if they rape the locals.

[PhoenixAsh]

Yes...because fuck sex workers the world over and completely ignore their voice....lets focus on the criminal aspects with barely hidden moralistic, patriarchal connotations about female purity and (sexual) innocence rather than prostitution itself.

[Asero]

Banning them from prostituting themselves is a bourgeois solution which actually increases sexual oppression. But establishing a false dichotomy can cloud this fact. To understand this, notice that censorship of pornography, for instance, is linked with sexually repressive regimes, while pornography also can promote sexist elements. The solution is not banning or censoring it... and not everything is fixed by just allowing it.

Women who prostitute themselves do so based on economic conditions. They will keep doing it if illegalized, but in even shittier conditions. The solution is to ensure all individuals have their needs covered in general, and, in regard to prostitution specifically, its legalization and regularization in order to address the needs and stop the abuse of sex workers.

"And here is the answer to the outcry of the highly moral philistines against the 'community of women'. Community of women is a condition which belongs entirely to bourgeois society and which today finds its complete expression in prostitution. But prostitution is based on private property and falls with it. Thus, communist society, instead of introducing community of women, in fact abolishes it." - F. Engels

^--This.


Though I might be wrong (and correct me if I am), most prostitutes and professional pornographic actor/resses are probably driven to do so because of difficulty in obtaining a livable income to otherwise (which in of itself tends to be the the result of job market failures) meet ends-meet, and are encouraged to do so though social pressure (usually) via patriarchy (I'm too ignorant of feminist theory to make a good male-dominated-society arguement). I think a "short term solution," for the lack of a better phrase, is the promotion of giving people (though most prostitutes/pornographers are most likely women, there are those that are men) better opportunities for better work, which of course would be easy because those kind of things have a tendency to be the first thing on the "things to do in the revolution" lists.

I don't trust pimps. They seem to be the prostitute equivalent of capitalists.

[DAN E BOY]

Is it acceptable to be a baker or a checkout clerk? Genuine questions.

I suppose so, people need an income to sustain themselves.

[DAN E BOY]

i know several sex workers that offer their sex services to (depending on the service and the sex worker) physical, mentally or socially handicapped people, people with certain fetishes that they cant get met in their relationships etc etc.
while the sex workers in question certainly enjoy this work it is work and they might perform the same kind of sexual activities in their personal relationships yet the distinction between their work and their personal relationships is important to them.
this is no different than me as a carpenter making a difference between building furniture for myself, a friend, a collective i volunteer for a client. like me and my carpentry in a post capitalist society these sex workers probably would still like to provide society with these services but still would make, like me, a distinction between their "work" (then on a voluntary basis in service of the community) and their personal free time.

Prostitutes and skilled workers are in no way related!

I'm not a ''skilled worker'' but I have family members that are (gas engineers). And to try and equate the two is ridiculous. You need YEARS of training to become a tradesman/women,qualifications and working in this environment (primarily) involves using your brain.

Prostitutes need little training....you can learn on the job
You don't need any qualifications to ''get fucked''
And the game is all about selling your body, not much thought work.

I'm not one who thinks about ''women's purity'' but I'm not ashamed to say I wouldn't want people in my family being hookers.

[Sasha]

sex work is certainly a skilled profession, like with gasfitting you get what you pay for, sure you can get it cheaply done by some untrained illegal who is willing to forgo your and their safety to drop the price but chances are you'll end up with a leaky pipe.

[DAN E BOY]

sex work is certainly a skilled profession, like with gasfitting you get what you pay for, sure you can get it cheaply done by some untrained illegal who is willing to forgo your and their safety to drop the price but chances are you'll end up with a leaky pipe.

I don't agree with this at all.

For the simple reason that the ''service'' prostitutes render can be picked up for free. It's called a relationship. It could be a long term one, could be a one night stand.

Do you know any trade people who work free of charge? no, me neither. Even my family charge me for the plumbing etc LOL.