Communist Party of Great Britain - PCC

[The Feral Underclass]

Am I right in thinking that the CPGB-PCC is basically a big tent Marxist party?

Can someone also tell me why they continue to use the imperialist name for Britain?

[RedKobra]

There interesting, I was first exposed to them by listening to various members talk at things like the big Marxism festival and they seemed a pretty reasonable bunch, I read some of their online literature and it impressed me even more. Their input into Left Unity has also been highly encouraging. What put me off slightly was that their official spokespeople were nowhere near as good at communicating the message as the membership & also perusing their transitional demands. I couldn't believe how tepid most of it was and then right in the middle, sticking out like a sore thumb is the demand that the age of consent be scrapped. Now I understand that there are better ways of protecting children but they didn't seem to have given much thought to what. You can't just scrap the age of consent and THEN start thinking about how to protect children from predatory adults. I really don't understand it.

Altogether a very interesting group, with some very engaging members who maybe lack some of the academic & scholarly razzmatazz of the SWP but on the other hand don't appear quite as stultifying inert.

[Tim Cornelis]

What makes the name imperialist? Wikipedia gives no indication.

[The Feral Underclass]

What makes the name imperialist? Wikipedia gives no indication.

The term Great refers to the imperialist domination of Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

[The Feral Underclass]

There interesting, I was first exposed to them by listening to various members talk at things like the big Marxism festival and they seemed a pretty reasonable bunch, I read some of their online literature and it impressed me even more. Their input into Left Unity has also been highly encouraging. What put me off slightly was that their official spokespeople were nowhere near as good at communicating the message as the membership & also perusing their transitional demands. I couldn't believe how tepid most of it was and then right in the middle, sticking out like a sore thumb is the demand that the age of consent be scrapped. Now I understand that there are better ways of protecting children but they didn't seem to have given much thought to what. You can't just scrap the age of consent and THEN start thinking about how to protect children from predatory adults. I really don't understand it.

Altogether a very interesting group, with some very engaging members who maybe lack some of the academic & scholarly razzmatazz of the SWP but on the other hand don't appear quite as stultifying inert.

Thanks. Do you have answers to my specific questions?

[RedKobra]

Thanks. Do you have answers to my specific questions?

Well if you read their online stuff they make pretty clear that the party, and they go to some effort to make clear that they don't really see themselves as a party, don't make many doctrinal demands of their members. You can be pro-Trotsky, anti-trotsky or other, pro-Lenin, anti-Lenin.etc I think they even say that whilst most in the party take an anti-Stalinist line its not a dogma that you have to subscribe to.

So in essence, I think that they would gladly take your description of 'big-tent' Marxism.

[Tim Cornelis]

The term Great refers to the imperialist domination of Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

Hmm. Ireland is not part of Great Britain. But I don't really say how it reflects domination per se. Is Russia an imperialist name for its domination over the Caucasus and Siberia? China over Tibet? Netherlands over (catholic) Southern Provinces? I don't really see it. It's just the name of the country/region.

EDIT: Ah, I think you meant Great specifically referring to the domination. Can't find anything about that on the wikipedia.

[The Feral Underclass]

Hmm. Ireland is not part of Great Britain.

Well, not unless you count Northern Ireland as Irish. But greater Ireland was a British colony up until 1922.

But I don't really say how it reflects domination per se. Is Russia an imperialist name for its domination over the Caucasus and Siberia? China over Tibet? Netherlands over (catholic) Southern Provinces? I don't really see it. It's just the name of the country/region.

The English conquest of Wales, Scotland and Ireland were imperialist campaigns of domination with a long and brutal history. The term "Great" is the word used to articulate the name of the island as a result of that.

Ah, I think you meant Great specifically referring to the domination. Can't find anything about that on the wikipedia.

Because Wikipedia doesn't have a political analysis of English imperialism.

[bricolage]

The term Great refers to the imperialist domination of Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

Ireland has never been a part of Great Britain. Hence why it was called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and now the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[The Feral Underclass]

Ireland has never been a part of Great Britain. Hence why it was called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and now the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Yes, of course you're right.

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Does anyone know the answer to my questions?

[bricolage]

I think the answer to your question is that they use the CPGB(PCC) name in order to claim a lineage from the original CPGB. And yes they are a sort of big tent group, in theory because they want to a have a mass party in which different aspects of the 'left' can work together yet still have disagreements but in practice what this means is that each of their 8 members sometimes argue with each other.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

Am I right in thinking that the CPGB-PCC is basically a big tent Marxist party?

They don't define themselves as such. I would say they definitely are for a "big tent party", with all that entails, but that means they focus on building Left Unity.

Can someone also tell me why they continue to use the imperialist name for Britain?

I don't think it is an "imperialist name", in fact it's the short form many people use to refer to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. And Scotland, in particular, used to be the junior partner in the joint imperialist ventures of England and Scotland, not a conquered region. But anyway, I imagine the CPGB-PCC uses the term because they view themselves as successors of the old CPGB, although the organisational link is tenuous at best.

[Raquin]

I don't think they are a big tent Marxist party. They are a big tent Trot party. They want to take all the Trot sects, strip them of (most) of their Trotskyism, and mold them into a slightly bigger half-Trot half-CPGBMarxism sect and call it the CP of Britain.

Can someone also tell me why they continue to use the imperialist name for Britain?

You are awfully smug for someone so ignorant. Great Britain is the name of the Island where England, Wales, and Scotland are located. It's called Great Britain not because of some imperialistic past but to distinguish it from Lesser Britain, which is today known as the Breton Peninsula.

UK Island = Britannia Major
French Peninsula = Britannia Minor

[Tim Cornelis]

They're more like non-Trotskyist, non-Stalinist Leninist.

Well, not unless you count Northern Ireland as Irish. But greater Ireland was a British colony up until 1922.



The English conquest of Wales, Scotland and Ireland were imperialist campaigns of domination with a long and brutal history. The term "Great" is the word used to articulate the name of the island as a result of that.



Because Wikipedia doesn't have a political analysis of English imperialism.

Hence why I subtly hinted at you giving me a source to backs up your claim. A bit too subtle it seems. But from what I read, great is in reference to the size of the island compared to"Lesser Britain".
So no imperialist connotations it seems.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?s

You are awfully smug for someone so ignorant. Great Britain is the name of the Island where England, Wales, and Scotland are located. It's called Great Britain not because of some imperialistic past but to distinguish it from Lesser Britain, which is today known as the Breton Peninsula.

UK Island = Britannia Major
French Peninsula = Britannia Minor

I'm guessing based on the Latin used that you have also looked it up on wikipedia, so no need to call anyone ignorant here. And of course the irony of smugness as you seemingly were as ignorant but claimed knowledge.

Wikipedia: "After the Anglo-Saxon period, Britain was used as a historical term only. Geoffrey of Monmouth in his pseudohistorical Historia Regum Britanniae (c. 1136) refers to the island of Great Britain as Britannia major ("Greater Britain"), to distinguish it from Britannia minor ("Lesser Britain")"

[The Feral Underclass]

Hence why I subtly hinted at you giving me a source to backs up your claim.

Do you know about the English conquest of Wales and why the Treaty of the Union was created?

A bit too subtle it seems. But from what I read, great is in reference to the size of the island compared to"Lesser Britain".
So no imperialist connotations it seems.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?s

Yes, it refers to the size, which includes two countries that England claimed as part of their empire. The Treaty of the Union, which united the Kingdoms of Scotland and England was deeply unpopular in Scotland to everyone except the Scottish nobility, because it maintained their privilege and power, while establishing a single state for the Hanover dynasty to rule. In effect making it easier for the state to govern.

I bring it up because I find it slightly off-putting that a communist party would link itself to that history.

[Hrafn]

In Swedish, "Storbritannien" is the only word for the United Kingdom.

[The Feral Underclass]

You are awfully smug for someone so ignorant. Great Britain is the name of the Island where England, Wales, and Scotland are located. It's called Great Britain not because of some imperialistic past but to distinguish it from Lesser Britain, which is today known as the Breton Peninsula.

UK Island = Britannia Major
French Peninsula = Britannia Minor

I didn't realise asking a question was considered smug.

It's also a bit stupid trying to explain the use of the name to me without actually referring to the concrete history and then telling me I'm ill-informed.

[Blake's Baby]

The united Scottish and English kingdoms called themselves 'Great Britain' after the Scottish royal family took over England. It's not called 'Great Scotland' (or 'Great England' for that matter).

[The Feral Underclass]

The united Scottish and English kingdoms called themselves 'Great Britain' after the Scottish royal family took over England. It's not called 'Great Scotland' (or 'Great England' for that matter).

I don't think it's really accurate to say they "took it over," since they were all part of the same family. It was more like a consolidation of power to maintain Monarchist rule in England. The fact that it's not named Great England isn't really proof of anything. The unification of the Scottish and English states into "Great" Britain benefited no one except the Scottish nobility and the English imperialist agenda. I don't see how that is something communists should be associating themselves with.

[Tim Cornelis]

A bit of an unnecessarily drawn out discussion, but whatever. So the name Great Britain is derived from the need to distinguish between it and Britanny. So the political entity, which is approximately Great Britain, at some point benefited the Scottish nobility and English imperialism. But it's self-evident that political entities, especially states, are historically constituted on the basis of the interests of its ruling classes. But this is the same as with any political entity carrying a name, Netherlands, Spain, Argentina, Russia. I don't see how it is problematic to call your party after the nation-state or multinational state or otherwise political entity when that is the organisational scope of the party. "The proletariat of each country must, of course, first of all settle matters with its own bourgeoisie", so saith it in the scripture. This is logical as the political power is concentrated at that particular level. The state recognises no authority above itself (it only submits itself voluntarily to transnational entities). Why associate oneself with it? Well, it is a communist party of Great Britain.