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Future hypothetical scenario... what would you do?
Imagine that in the future, there was an extreme Leftward shift of the domestic politics in your country. And that say a good percentage of people supported the local Socialist/Communist Party and it's likely that it could win.
If the Party was not ideological consistent with your politics, would you vote for it?
In other words, say a Marxist-Leninist party (if I'm not mistaken, most people on this forum are not Marxist-Leninists) was on the verge of victory, would you give up your ideological reasons (say, you were a Trotskyist or a Ultra-leftist) and vote for them to ensure a Left wing victory?
I know, it's an unlikely scenario, but I had it pressing in my mind and I thought to ask it.
"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." (Fredrick Douglass)
´We want freedom by any means necessary. We want justice by any means necessary. We want equality by any means necessary.´ (Malcolm X)
´Freedom only for the members of the government, only for the members of the Party — though they are quite numerous — is no freedom at all. Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters.´ (Rosa Luxemburg)
I put on my robe and wizard hat.
Seriously, voting a bourgeois workers' party into power is not going to change anything, and if they have an assured victory, we don't even have to go to the trouble of giving them the nice noose they will use to hang themselves (i.e. get into government and completely discredit themselves).
I'd imagine that following such a strong electoral there would be an even bigger extra-parliamentary mobilisation.
So...
"We have seen: a social revolution possesses a total point of view because – even if it is confined to only one factory district – it represents a protest by man against a dehumanized life" - Marx
"But to push ahead to the victory of socialism we need a strong, activist, educated proletariat, and masses whose power lies in intellectual culture as well as numbers." - Luxemburg
fka the greatest Czech player of all time, aka Pavel Nedved
I doubt that, the victory of a bourgeois workers' party would only serve to stabilise capitalism and save it in the long run. Reformism of any kind should always be an enemy.
No, I'd never vote for any Leninist party at all, beside the fact that I just don't vote.
Besides you confuse IMHO communism with Leninism. I don't think they have anything to do with each other.
"Property is theft."
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
"the system of wage labor is a system of slavery"
Karl Heinrich Marx
I think the point that you are completely missing is that revolutions are not made by parties, but by classes.
Devrim
What's the opposition like? What's the constitutional framework, relevant issues and greater socio-economic landscape?
Last edited by Sabot Cat; 6th November 2014 at 08:13.
This is not an entirely theoretical question, as we do have an example to actually look at and consider; the Venezuelan state and Chavez. While the Bolivarian socialists are not a Marxist movement, as my friends in the CPV do like to remind me, it is an example of something that can and did actually happen, and, is worth inverting for your question, for those that are Marxist-Leninist, how they would feel about supporting something like that.
Well, I will simply note, to partially answer my own thoughts on this, some of my friends from the CPV have participated in the Chavez government and national assembly, with the hope of pushing this modest effort further into a more complete revolution...
As for me, if a more orthodox Marxist party somehow found itself in power, or with the means of becoming a "governing party", yes, I would actively support that, even if my own views are somewhat outside theirs. Of course my preference is to end the very idea of institutional power itself, but I do not expect perfection, I just wish to see at least some forward human progress again, and that would clearly offer that much.
Let me change OPs post for the sake of discussion.
A revolution has sprung up! There is a "vanguard" in charge and it is Marxist-Leninist! What would you do? Would you support it?
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I have no freaking clue what my tendency is.
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Economic Left/Right: -9.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.82
Why would any non-Leninist support a Leninist party in power? They exterminate people they don't like or agree with.
Let me change OPs post for the sake of discussion.
A revolution has sprung up! There is a "vanguard" in charge and it is Marxist-Leninist! What would you do? Would you support it?
Which brings me to my next question... if Leftists cannot agree with each other and unite along a common cause, how can they expect the masses to do so?
"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." (Fredrick Douglass)
´We want freedom by any means necessary. We want justice by any means necessary. We want equality by any means necessary.´ (Malcolm X)
´Freedom only for the members of the government, only for the members of the Party — though they are quite numerous — is no freedom at all. Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters.´ (Rosa Luxemburg)
If it makes life more bearable for myself and my fellow working class then hell yeah I'd vote for them.
I ain't about to sit, suffer and wait for a global revolution that will probably never occur in my lifetime.
I wish death on everyone who works for the Department for Work and Pensions.
The Left is concept that contains many various ideologies. There so-called social-democrats, liberals who aren't interested in economy but are for feminism and equality for sexual minorities but they say that capitalism is OK, Stalinists, Jucheists, etc. Do you want to be in one front with them? I don't. It would be good that all people who want a socialized (don't confuse with nationalized) means of productions would be together. That would be enough for me.
"Property is theft."
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
"the system of wage labor is a system of slavery"
Karl Heinrich Marx
no.
The revolution will not happen through the ballotbox
