Thread: Howcome 'Primitivism' isn't considered left-wing?

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  1. #101
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    Oh my characterization of nihilism as an actual ideology? No I just used that as a placeholder for generic Eco terrorists as being separate from other primitivists. I don't really know much about nihilism.
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  2. #102
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    So before saying anything else, I just wanted to point out this bold part as a demonstration of how intellectually honest you're actually interested in being and how you're totally not trolling or anything. Replace 'primmos' with commies and yurts with North Korea or Cuba and oh boy what a familiar post this becomes. Anyhow, just like you can't move to North Korea to experience the joys of communism, you can't pitch a tent in the forest and experience post-industrial bliss, or whatever passes for bliss in a post-industrial hellscape. It's the part of the day where you pass out from blood loss after being mauled by a radscorpian I think.

    Primitivists are of the mind that industrial society is unsustainable, unsustainable to the extent that it will collapse and consume itself, along with a sizable chunk of the biosphere. As a result of this collapse human society will have to reconstitute itself based on the material available, and since industrial society will supposedly have consumed all the resources on the earth's surface and since machinery to get at the good stuff still remaining in the ground won't be around anymore, they reckon that human society will have to get by with a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. They aren't planning on personally destroying each and every artificially housed hormone that might be used by transgender people or each clinic that might be used by women for immediate abortions, instead they say that the industrial society which made these things available will itself disappear due to it's own designs without the help of anyone. That in of itself doesn't sound all that reactionary, but for sure some of the theories and I guess tendencies that result from this starting point are. Imagine if you will a diagram of stupid leftist tendencies ranging from left liberalism and social democracy to whatever ideology it is that drives people to form cults and keep domestic slaves for decades. Now take those categories and change their stupid names to other stupid names that revolve around 'green' vocabularies. You get all kinds of people, people that develop a fetish for the collapse itself (left wing version; think of people who intellectually masturbate over the opportunity to kill a CEO or something, rather than focusing on something really cool like not having to go to work or pay for anything ever again, go figure.) because they have any number of issues in the here and now and society collapsing seems like a good alternative in that mindset I suppose. But they can't make the collapse happen any faster than it's already doing it, just like you can't make communism happen any faster by handing out leaflets or newspapers. They just continue to go to work and posting blogs that no one reads. Then there are some other nerds that think industrial society could maybe be brought down in a 'controlled' fashion like wiring a partially-collapsed building with dynamite. They like to role play as eco-terrorists but actually are just a fan-cult around one of the more famous primitivist writers.

    Then you have the nihilists. These people are young and angry and as a result of not thinking too critically and of not having a whole lot of perspective in life yet, think it's a good idea to take revenge on the people "responsible" for the whole ecological collapse that's coming. Now whether those people are actually responsible for anything to a greater or lesser extent than the nihilists themselves doesn't really enter the equation because like I said there's a lack of critical thinking going on. This phenomena also reproduces itself on the left..and the right and pretty much any movement that can attract young and angry people who don't think critically.

    Again though, this all sounds super familiar, I dunno. But yeah that's primitivism, its as useless are you are (or anyone else on the left, not intended to be an insult), which is maybe why leftists are so keen to beat up on it, although you have to admit it sort of sets itself up for it. Luckily there are no primitivists on revleft aside from those in your head. If there were some, you wouldn't have had to wait over a week for me to get stoned and respond like this.

    I know revleft gets on loops about certain topics, but I'm ready to transition away from primitivism, I feel as though this is the 6th or 7th thread about it in the last few weeks.
    Well, good for you that you got stoned and all, but this post depends on the usual primmo (and I'm not saying you're a primmo for using it, mind) rationalisation that, no really, they don't want the collapse to happen, but it will, honest. And if you actually read any of the primmos and semi-primmos - Jensen or Zerzan or Faun - they're obviously salivating at the prospect. As were the overwhelming majority of people banned as primmos on RevLeft - that one dude who talked about an increasing population of salmon every year sticks out in my mind (is this what left politics has degenerated to on this site? fuck salmon). You practically admit this later on.

    So these people - these people who want to live in the woods free of sinful industrial society - they can do so right now. In fact all of us would be happy if they did so.

    And of course primmos can't bring about the collapse of industrial society, but hey, that one boneheaded Nazi won't bring about a fascist dictatorship either, does that mean he's A-OK?

    I don't know if there are primmos on RevLeft. There are certainly political exhibitionists who post communiques by primmo or pretend-primmo groups as well as a large number of users who will swallow any kind of crap as long as it's packaged as "post-left", "critical" theory.
  3. #103
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    Salivating at the prospect I tell you! Heavens! I assume the rest of that post was an apology for your other posts in this thread. Not accepted you cheeky fuck
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  4. #104
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    The implication that primitivism developed from Bordigism in the sense that it is a modification of Bordigism or that it follows the logic of Bordigism.
    i think camatte was using 'left communism logic' (what) when he made the turn towards primitivism. it didn't come out of nowhere.

    But I never meant to say that you were giving primmos a free pass - but that RevLeft was. And it's true. You can say whatever disgusting stuff you want, as long as you chant Cammate Fordism anti-civ anti-civ you'll be fine.
    what disgusting stuff have users said? let's have some names and quotes.
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  5. #105
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    i think camatte was using 'left communism logic' (what) when he made the turn towards primitivism. it didn't come out of nowhere.
    It didn't come out of nowhere (what does?), but it certainly involved him rejecting the logic of left communism, specifically Bordigism.

    Originally Posted by bcbm
    what disgusting stuff have users said? let's have some names and quotes.
    Ha, why, so the thread can be locked because "this is not the place for board administration, PM an admin" (and be ignored)? I mean, just look at this fucking thread.
  6. #106
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    It didn't come out of nowhere (what does?), but it certainly involved him rejecting the logic of left communism, specifically Bordigism.
    shrug

    Ha, why, so the thread can be locked because "this is not the place for board administration, PM an admin" (and be ignored)? I mean, just look at this fucking thread.
    ok so pm them to me. i've skimmed the thread, i don't see anyone getting a hardon for human extinction.
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  8. #107
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    Well, good for you that you got stoned and all, but this post depends on the usual primmo (and I'm not saying you're a primmo for using it, mind) rationalisation that, no really, they don't want the collapse to happen, but it will, honest. And if you actually read any of the primmos and semi-primmos - Jensen or Zerzan or Faun - they're obviously salivating at the prospect. As were the overwhelming majority of people banned as primmos on RevLeft - that one dude who talked about an increasing population of salmon every year sticks out in my mind (is this what left politics has degenerated to on this site? fuck salmon). You practically admit this later on.
    Well, good for you that you got stoned and all, but this post depends on the usual commie (and I'm not saying you're a commie for using it, mind) rationalization that no, really, they don't want the revolution to happen, but it will, honest. And if you actually read any of the commies and pinkos - Marx or Bakunin or Lenin - they're obviously salivating at the prospect. As are the majority of people posting as communists on Revleft - that one dude who talked about an increasing level of industrialization every year sticks out in my mind (is that is what left politics has degenerated to on this site? fuck work). You practically admit this later on.

    ---

    My point being that you can make a shitty caricature of anyone if you really wanted to. It's a lot easier to just dismiss people as idiots than to consider the idea that they see something you don't, and in truth, the idea that the system as it is now is unsustainable is pretty damn integral to "revolutionary" left-wing politics and the theory behind it.
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  10. #108
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    I wasn't talking about the actions of Oklahoma and Tokyo being undertaken by nihilists, but rather describing these particular supporters of thus as some sort of anti-human nihilists.

    Clarified?
    The very few misguided cretins that support actions like the Oklahoma bombing tend to be your far right, anti-government, Christian types who think that America and all the "indigenous white countries" belong to White Protestant Anglo-Saxons and should remain that way. As for supporters of the Tokyo Subway attack the only people i have ever heard support that are people who are blatantly racist against the Japanese.

    It's much the same deal with Ted Kaczynski (the unabomber) as he was very far right wing, a rabid anti-Socialist and does fit the definition of being a Primitivist atleast in my opinion. Eric Rudolph the Olympic park bomber was also a white supremacist, homophobic, anti-abortion, far right anti-government right wing Christian who was a member of those nutters called the Church of Israel of all things.

    I do know a few people who believe in Nihilism but none of them support actions like these or are even very political. I have had quite a few rather interesting debates with nihilists actually especially the existential nihilists. They are indeed a very far cry from say the likes of the Russian Nihilists of the 1800's.
  11. #109
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    You're wrong about ted kaczynski, he is no way right wing. Also he is not a a primitivist.
    "I'm not interested in indulging whims from members of your faction."
    Seeing as this is seen as acceptable by an admin, from here on out when I have a disagreement with someone I will be asking them to reference this. If you want an explanation of my views, too bad.
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  13. #110
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    Indeed, he has an entire essay dedicated to his own critiques of primitivism.
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  15. #111
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    Originally Posted by The Modern Prometheus
    Eric Rudolph the Olympic park bomber was also a white supremacist, homophobic, anti-abortion, far right anti-government right wing Christian who was a member of those nutters called the Church of Israel of all things.
    Actually I think he was a Catholic.
  16. #112
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    Rudolph was raised in a Catholic background but he had associated with various Christian Identity movements, including the Church of Israel, when he was older. I don't know if this can be seen as primitivist or nihilist though so much as part of the more generic run of the mill anti-government, right-wing militia movement.
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