Howcome 'Primitivism' isn't considered left-wing?

[Sasha]

http://theanarchistlibrary.org/topics/post-civ

[Lord Testicles]

Well that Anarcha-Herbalism essay was a load of low grade guff.

A society of people who are responsible for their own health and able to gather or grow their own medicines is a hard society to rule. These days we are dependent on the power structure of industrial health care — the secret society of the doctors, the white-male-dominated medical schools, the corporate decision makers with their toxic pharmaceuticals and heartless greed and labs full of tortured beings. That dependence is one more thing keeping us tied down to the State and unable to rebel with all our hearts or even envision a world without such oppression. With a new system of healing, based on self-knowledge and herbal wisdom, we will be that much more free.

Sometimes, some "anarchists" need to die. Fuck off back into the cold embrace of Gaia you dippy waste of carbon.

So am I to take from this that primitivists come in two verities: Anti-human psychopaths and New Age mystic morons?

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

You're only talking about accelerationism, not primitivism. You seen incapable of understanding that there are multiple types of primitivism, in favor of only the accelerationist stance.

"But people don't understand, there are anarchist and art-based groups whose existence totally proves that the glorious Sy..." Wait, I was having a bit of a flashback. Who are these "non-accelerationist" primmos? Name, occupation and name of mimeographed zine, please.

b) Fidelity to radical egalitarianism? Primitivism probably counts as "left" on that basis, as do various millenarian religious movements, etc.

(1) Marxism, which is definitely part of leftist thought, is not "for" egalitarianism in general - although egalitarian slogans can be raised in certain circumstances, to focus on equality is to miss the point quite badly. This is pretty basic - Marx himself covers it in his attack on Lassalle.

(2) Primitivism can't be "radically egalitarian" as it can't be egalitarian at all. Here is one question the defenders of primitivism have been avoiding - how would a primmo society provide for free, medically safe abortion up to the point of birth? It couldn't.

c) Fidelity to progress? i.e. Is the left rooted a particular notion of history as a movement from "necessity to freedom"? That is, is the left the bastard child of European liberalism? In this last case, Primitivism (and most of the post-left, various radical religious movements, various Indigenist movements, etc.) would not be left.

Except European liberalism envisions progress as being largely concerned with state forms, from despotism to the bourgeois democratic republic, whereas progress, for the Marxist, is chiefly the progress of modes of production. Not to mention that primitivism is infinitely closer to European liberalism and its myth of the noble savage living in the state of nature.

[Palmares]

The only primitivists I know anything about were connected to the magazine Green Anarchist some years ago and this is what I'm basing my view of primitivism on.

I'm far from a scholar of that publication, but my knowledge of it is that it was, to say the least, very hit and miss. For one, the editors changed hands a few times, often related to political disputes. This horrible guy Richard Hunt was an editor who was then kicked out I believe, as he had distasteful tendency towards nationalism. His activities after the split illuminated thus. But to add to that, I believe there were some articles in that publication that were of a particularly sinister nihilist vibe. I can't remember the specifics, but I think these articles would understandably lead to the view of the magazine being anti-human as as it were.

Even the publication Green Anarchy from the US had editorial changes, and this changed the politics dramatically. Not to mention the internal conflict that continued throughout - primitivists vs non-primitivists (as a false dichotomy).

http://theanarchistlibrary.org/topics/post-civ

Unfortunately, Richard Hunt is on that list. I guess it's as annoying as finding Stalin's writings on a "communism" list.

[BIXX]

I am with the nihilists, I am anti-human in that humanity is one of the greatest spooks used stop us from acting.

But this discussion is about primitivism.

[Palmares]

Just like all these other "isms" we are throwing around, there's different types of nihilists. If I remember correctly, the nihilism I'm referring to included support of acts of terrorism. Specifically, the Oklahoma bombing and the Tokyo Subway gassing, I believe.

I understand we should keep different tactics open, but ideological misanthropy is the antithesis of why I believe we should struggle. It's not a world/community I want to be part of.

[BIXX]

Eh, I support terrorist struggle, but only in as much as it is useful to me. I mean, RS kicks some ass. Idk, a lot goes into whether or not I support an action.

[The Modern Prometheus]

I don't know why they call it Anarcho-Primitivism as there is little about it that resembles Anarchism and it is certainly nothing resembling any kind of socialism

...except of course anarchism....

[PhoenixAsh]

I don't know why they call it Anarcho-Primitivism as there is little about it that resembles Anarchism and it is certainly nothing resembling any kind of socialism

...except of course anarchism....

[PhoenixAsh]

OW fucking crap ass shitty fucking phones.. fucking edit button.

I editted instead of quoted The Modern Prometeus post.

WTF.

logged here: http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.p...&postcount=113

[ℂᵒиѕẗяᵤкт]

I don't know much about primitivism, but it strikes me as "lifestylist." It brings to mind "communes" of the hippie variety, although I imagine primitivism has a more rugged, survivalist aesthetic.

I don't know if it's reactionary, but it doesn't pose a threat to the machines of oppression. Their vision of utopia is predicated on everyone being persuaded to be primitivist. I can see the appeal if one has the first-world luxury of romanticizing the way many, many people suffer.

[Lord Testicles]

Mod abuse! Mod abuse!

Quick! Call an emergency meeting of the Soviet of Workers of the Union of Socialist Forums!

[Martin Luther]

Bureaucratic wrecker!

[PhoenixAsh]

And TMP had some pretty good points too...

Which you will never know about untill they repost...

[The Modern Prometheus]

I will not stand for such bureaucracy and obvious revisionism! So instead i shall sit down and retype my post after dinner

[BIXX]

Is there not an undo edit option? Or edit history?

[The Modern Prometheus]

Just like all these other "isms" we are throwing around, there's different types of nihilists. If I remember correctly, the nihilism I'm referring to included support of acts of terrorism. Specifically, the Oklahoma bombing and the Tokyo Subway gassing, I believe.

I understand we should keep different tactics open, but ideological misanthropy is the antithesis of why I believe we should struggle. It's not a world/community I want to be part of.

The Oklahoma city bombing was carried out as a reaction to such incidents as Waco by what where essentially far right anti-government, white supremacist Christian terrorists. It was a part of the much bigger white Supremacist Christian terrorist militia movement across the US during the 90's which burned out as quickly as it began. As for the Tokyo Subway Sarin attack the Aum Shinrikyo where more or less Japan's answer to the Peoples Temple. They where driven by a weird mix of Doomsday bullshit connected to Nostradamus, anti-Japanism, antisemitism and like every other cult alot more bullshit as well. Neither had anything to do with Nihilism as far as i know.

As for Primitivism how can it be anything other then the very definition of reactionary in todays post-industrial society where we are all connected by technology? With 1 click on skype i can talk to my friends halfway around the world or download a blues song that i would have previously had to go scouring through every record shop downtown looking for. I don't look upon that as a bad thing at all and there is no turning back from this age of technology. I see Anarcho-Primitivism as being the most reactionary of the so called left ideologies. It certainly has nothing to do with Anarchism or indeed any kind of Socialism really as Socialism embraces science and Socialists whether they are Anarchists or Marxists generally see technology as a neutral thing to be used to our advantage or against us.

Really is throwing away our computers, ripping the satellite dishes out of our houses and tossing out all our indoor plumbing and driving us back to the stone age really the most pressing matters for the working class of today? Yes because before we had such awful things as modern medicine, sanitation, IPad's and Netflix there was no conflict between humans. Although i do remember a few wars as well as epidemics that could have been easily treated with Penicillin i am sure they where just signs of encroaching technology and what was to come with todays society . Also how would one enforce Primitivism this and still maintain a Anarchist society? What the hell would you do besides having the equivalent of the Gestapo doing raids on peoples houses for any contraband items such as computers, phones, tablets, ibuprofen, antibiotics, a wheel, etc? Yes i am sure forcing the working class back into the fucking dark ages is what we all really want and would be a sure fire way to win all of us over

I imagine if Primitivism somehow managed to gain a foothold it would end up looking much more like Cambodian under the Khmer Rouge rather then some Communist utopia. Granted the idea of Primitivism ever gaining traction is as laughable as the ideology itself.

As a side note has anyone here ever actually met a Primitivist? I have met lot's of Anarchist Communists and Syndicalists but i honestly never heard of Anarcho-Primitivism until i did a google image search on that black and green flag. For a minute i thought it was some kind of flag for a Irish Anarchist group but was sadly let down.

[BIXX]

I know a primmo or two in real life.

I have heard some interesting arguments regarding how the Primitivists think we would maintain a pre-civilized society. In fact, it would likely be impossible to rebuild civilization because many of the resources that sustain it now would be unable to be retrieved as the technology to do so would be gone.

Also, I don't think primmos are concerned with the proletariat really (I'm not either but I suspect it's for different reasons.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Humans would certainly still have the knowledge and ability to maintain sedentary, pastoral lifestyles, which really is the bedrock of class society and "civilization", though.

[Palmares]

I wasn't talking about the actions of Oklahoma and Tokyo being undertaken by nihilists, but rather describing these particular supporters of thus as some sort of anti-human nihilists.

Clarified?

Idk, a lot goes into whether or not I support an action.

Agreed. I'm not dogmatically against any given action, but by a similar view, am far from dogmatically supportive of any action taken against the state(s).

I don't know why they call it Anarcho-Primitivism as there is little about it that resembles Anarchism and it is certainly nothing resembling any kind of socialism

Man, I've been quoted twice on this one, and for the life of me I can't remember posting it. Can't find it anywhere either. Someone must have slipped something into my drink...