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There are not real revolutionaries
Hello people..well i just start this threat cause i am very disappointed from most anarchists.....We see anarchists go in the streets and do meaningless actions
fight with the cops burn some stores and things like that ....i know that anarchy does not mean chaos but i think to destroy this rotten system those fascists capitalists needs more than that so we can start from the beginning.i think most just like to break stuff and stores for fun not cause they have a purpose ..we dont need banks and banks will not fall if people throw eggs at the ATM and put glue ..or if we burn a trash can ..I dont have an ideology yet i can call my self Marxist and that.People from all over the world need to act together and destroy the fascism everywhere Europe USA Africa Middle east ......So i hope to meet people in this forum so we can talk and organised together.
thank's hope to find what i am looking for
The problem is in our faces
The main reason we have extreme rhetoric and revolutionary action is simple. We have thousands of people angry at the system, who are not wingnuts, and are are disenfranchised. In other words we have the energy, but thats just one part that can undermine true action if misdirected.
Match that energy with a few intelligent young minds, filled to brim with postmodern critical shlock, and you'll get a movements without political consequence. Might I mention what was OWS, a clear and obvious inability to organize against capitalism. I'm also not saying this now that it's established, I knew this as soon as the movement was brought to my attention. The ideology behind these so-called anarchists isn't left-wing at all IMO, they are truly just radical centrists, their ideology is nihilist in practice. Filled with authoritarian approved outlets for their frustrations.
1. Just Drop out of society, come back as yuppies once you realize resistance is futile.
2. Believe protest is an end to itself, public expression is somehow an action.
3. People will self-organize against the concept of organization.
All are true and false concurrently for different members, and the consequences nevertheless remain nothing. Since organization itself is impossible, you get the results of an unorganized group of people. Guess what the revolutionary potential of a directionless mass is? Nothing. However you can get a large support for a counter-revolutionary stabilizing nationalistic movement to oppose the 'threat' that never was.
Although he still provides too many concessions, I don't assume good faith, I don't assume their fecklessness isn't very negative. I don't even assume they know better, as this is the direction the forces have pushed our revolutionary spirit. This new non-movement 'anarchism' is too commonly being churned out in academia to be dismissed as coincidence. This has a very clear post-modernist feel, and unless you hear a marxist perspective on why thats nonsence, you may mistakenly believe that's what being a 'radical' is about.
Welcome
If you have political questions, you can ask them in the Learning forum. That's why it's there after all!
If you have questions about your account, don't hesitate to send me a PM or ask here.
I can understand your frustration. And for many 'anarchism' indeed isn't much more than smashing window shops and burning trash cans. Then again, 'Marxism' for many isn't much more than trying to sell a 'newspaper' that has no news and going from demonstration to demonstration like headless chickens. The far left has a wider problem and this is a reflection of its irrelevance as a social force in most countries.
I think, thus I disagree. | Chairperson of a Socialist Party branchMarxist Internet Archive | Communistisch Platform
Working class independence - Internationalism - Democracy
Educate - Agitate - Organise
Anarchists are utopians and idealists, very anti-scientific. They are like Ghandi, they think that with pure emotions, listenting to The Subhumans and other punk rock bands, and offending other leftists, without weapons, without any armed communist group, without elections and without armed revolutions they will overthrow capitalist governments and replace them with anarchist communist paradises (without the need of passing thru a workers-government)
Let's get real, anarchists do not want change. They are in leftist politics as a hobby. They hate all anti-imperialist left-leaning governments, for them Rafael Correa, Evo Morales, Nicolas Maduro, Pepe Mujica and other left-leaning anti-imperialism governments of this world are a waste of time and evil
They think its better to have neoliberal right-wing governments than anti-war, anti-imperialist welfare social-democratic governments,
They think that Jeb Bush and Obama are better than the anti-war progressive populist reformists Cindy Sheehan, Green Party and Cynthia Mckinney.
That's like a very fat person who weighs 500 pounds but he is so perfectionist that he would prefer to remain at 500 lbs than to lose 200 lbs and weigh 300 lbs.
They view the world in terms of black or white. And we all know that out there reality is totally different than what we read in political theory books. That's why I am anti-anarchism and anti-ultra-leftist parties.
I was orthodox ultra-leftist, but now I am more leninist, chavista, castrista, maoists and a realist leftist. Because i prefer a real Hugo Chavez in USA, than anarchist-communist system that will never take place at least in our lifetime
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Cyber: The problem i see in the left, specially in the internet cyber-activism of leftists is that most leftists here in the internet think that they do possess the 100% truth and facts on how to destroy capitalism and wars and replace them with socialism and economic progress for all people, and that if you have a different type of solution for the world you are a "troll". So that type of anti-tolerant behaviour in the leftist activists in the internet leads to progressive liberal websites banning radical communists. And forums of radical ultra-leftists like revleft.com banning and trashing progressive liberals, maoists, leninists and chavistas.
And humans hate being bashed and trashed, and all the bashing and trashing and hate within the left, all these cold ideological war between anarchists and trotskists, against maoists, stalinists, progressive liberals, chavistas, third world anti-imperialist populist reformists, has led to a destruction of the whole marxist ideology as a solution for this world. And the maintainance of capitalism as the only powerful political ideology in this world.
So poor people who are not dumb and are rational see all that sectarianism and weakness in the leftist labor parties, have no choice but to keep supporting The Democratic Party as the only realist and powerful party for US poor people.
Because the USA left is divided and leftists of different tendencies hate each other and will not unite at least for the near future. Because most humans lack humility and tolerance, and pride, narcissism, egocentrism is an impediment of leftists in USA to unite all together into a single political party
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You obviously have no understanding of anarchism TrotskistMarx. Give me some evidence of anarchists being anti-scientific, in which Kropotkin was very scientific. Afterall, look at his works like Mutual Aid. You show absolutely no understanding of anarchist and you provide no critique of it whatsoever. I say to this whole post: How pathetic of YOU! Also real great how you label a broad tendency as punk music listeners and people who are emotionally driven. Which your whole thing with thinking with pure emotions makes me think maybe you're a sexist. Would you argue women think solely with emotion and are childish? Anarchists want direct revolution and go contrary to the authoritarian ideas presented by Marxists (depends on the kind of Marxist) Anarchists reject the idea of a Vanguard, reject the DotP, they reject democratic centralism, they reject organic centralism, and many other points held by Marxists, which again depends on the type of Marxist because not all Marxists are the same. Not all anarchists are the same either. Your whole idea that we need a two-phase transition is rather backwards in my honest opinion. Anarchists want immediate overthrowal of the state and immediate destruction of the class system because centralization requires minority rule, and minority rule simply shows that there exists a hierarchy. The use of a state, a very bourgeois concept, will create a centralized state capitalist dictatorship with a new established bourgeoisie at the top. There will exist no worker's conrol in a state no matter what you call it. A state is a state, and a state is organized violence, a state is an organ of class rule that oppresses and suppresses a producing class.
Anarchists obviously want revolutionary change of society and to bring about true freedom for all of humanity, but you wouldn't know that because you show absolutely no understanding of anarchism. It's funny how you love government, you're obviously someone who wants a centralized society and I have problems considering you a socialist, let alone a communist. All of those left-leaning governments are capitalist states, and you can barely even call them left.
You're obviously a moron. Back your bullshit up with evidence, which your evidence doesn't exist. I have all government, I hate all nations, and all states, and of course I'm against imperialism.
Do you even know what you're fucking talking about?
You're a fucking moron, this doesn't make sense and just sounds prejudiced, it also makes you look like a fucking idiot.
Present evidence of anarchists viewing the world in terms of black and white. Good job it showing how you feel you're better and superior to others such as anarchists. You're not my superior and I kindly ask you to go fuck yourself and leave this forum for good. I wish you could get IP banned TrotskistMarx, and repeatedly IP banned. I've read plently of theory by the way and I do understand the brevity of reality.
I struggled to understand what this garbled nonsense even said. You seem more like a reformist to me and someone who just wants to antagonize other revolutionary leftists. I've seen your other posts, and you've been banned repeatedly, quit coming back.
Also welcome to RevLeft Daimon, I hope you enjoy your stay and please ignore the poster called kevin09x, he's a sockpuppet and a nuisance
"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge." ~Mikhail Bakunin
As much as I'd like to ripe into this idiot, this is an introduction thread.
Welcome aboard Daimon.
To hell with anarchists. It won't work in the real world. I will get banned because I said that anarchism is anti-scientific? Get real accept the truth that anarchism is very very stupid and a waste of time
And trotsky and his followers are the cancer of the left
Thanks
No, you'll get banned because you're a nuisance, an antisemite, and a sock puppet. I love your argument of "it won't work in the real world." Nothing I haven't heard and seen multiple times before with the politically daft and those with real criticisms. The real real criticisms are rare and yours is more like what a cappie would say about socialism in general. You gonna throw out there how it contradicts human nature? I love how you addressed none of my points either. Your reformist Stalinist tripe will achieve something horrible and did in practice because we can present actual evidence of what stalinism and reformism has achieved. Calling something stupid and a waste of time isn't an argument at all and same with calling something a cancer. You've presented expert use of complete ignorance and use of argumentum ad hominem. Again back your bullshit up.
"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge." ~Mikhail Bakunin
The OP should join a party or at least go to some meetings.
I feel like this all the time as well. There's that movie coming out called "The Purge: Anarchy," and this sounds really pedantic, but the name seriously irks me, because it represents all the misconceptions about anarchism there are, even on the left. Most people calling themselves "anarchist," these days don't have any political views, not even centrist ones. They're just playing at being revolutionaries and probably have never read any anarchist theory.
I would respond to that kevin09x tankie idiot, but he's banned and Sinister Intents did an awesome job of that. Anyway, welcome!
you can't expect from people to think and do the same like you.
maybe they would say for your actions it is meaningless.
people must accept diversity and not to push each others to be the same.
IF people from all over the world can act together, capitalism would fall down in 3 days. as you see, it is alive from burgeoise revolutions, about 300-400 years.
you can meet people anywhere but be careful, where are leftists, there are spies.
well that guy certainly derailed the discussion. i agree that smashing banks and throwing bombs at cops is useless when decontextualized from a serious organized mass movement. probably counter productive tbh. of course nothing justifies state repression against protestors, but those people are very missguided. black blocs are categorically the wrong way for the left to mobilize workers and achieve political relevance. but im not an anarchist so whatever
